tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post2281961515077025596..comments2023-02-14T06:23:54.154-05:00Comments on A Former Leader's Journey: Leadership DilemmasBarbhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04357293290630832549noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-7588659788774312192008-04-17T03:15:00.000-04:002008-04-17T03:15:00.000-04:00Hi Barb,I think Wayne helps a lot with his answer ...Hi Barb,<BR/><BR/>I think Wayne helps a lot with his answer today.<BR/><BR/>Go to http://lifestream.org/blog/?p=542Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-87457999709232361262008-04-10T23:47:00.000-04:002008-04-10T23:47:00.000-04:00Thanks Tera Rose, I do ask for opinions. That is ...Thanks Tera Rose, I do ask for opinions. That is really the whole point of posting. Thanks for joining in. Jesus was one of those kind of leaders.Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04357293290630832549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-14255672991264101072008-04-10T23:44:00.000-04:002008-04-10T23:44:00.000-04:00"I am just very wary of submitting myself to someo..."I am just very wary of submitting myself to someone who is not obligated to submit themselves to me in the exact same manner. "<BR/><BR/>well, I think you ought to be wary if one doesnt' submit one to another.<BR/><BR/>When I read about Jesus....I read him serving dinner to his friends after they went back to their old identities.....or was it breakfast? I just know that he sat on the beach roasting some fish on a fire and fed them before asking why they went back to their old fishermen identities.<BR/><BR/>I LIKE what you say about your marriage. <BR/><BR/>Maybe the comfort level isn't there because the spirit agrees with you? <BR/><BR/>I don't pretend to know the thoughts of God, but I don't think that all of our issues with authority are simply because we've been hurt. There are real issues.<BR/><BR/>I think it is ok to question authority- it seems to me that Jesus did and threw over some tables in the process.<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that he didn't shut up those who asked him questions.<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that He served (washed their feet) and was served (was washed in perfume).<BR/><BR/>It seems like it is a balance- an intercourse if you would- an exchange. <BR/><BR/>When you speak of your 7 children-- well, children need parents. That is a developmental stage.<BR/><BR/>But- if every adult on your street came to you with their problems and needed you to solve them in the manner that your children do- umm, wouldn't you move?<BR/><BR/>when you are a child, you drink milk....but an adult...you put away childish things.<BR/><BR/>SO its my opinion or preference (not doctrine) that I want to be with adults, side by side, building up each other as they have gifts.<BR/><BR/>The problem that I see- and perhaps should blog on.......is an IDOLTRY of leadership.<BR/><BR/>People LIFT up leadership as something more holy than any other role.<BR/><BR/>People lift up leaders and idolize them; people lift up the position and envy it....<BR/><BR/>something isn't right.<BR/><BR/>I've come to think that if something smells fishy.....well, then fish isn't too far.<BR/><BR/>trust your gut.<BR/><BR/>thats my advice-but did you ask?<BR/><BR/>LOL<BR/><BR/>tera roseTera Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07076220436921989470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-32712016073928491762008-04-10T22:03:00.000-04:002008-04-10T22:03:00.000-04:00Traveller, you were not harsh at all. Please dont...Traveller, you were not harsh at all. Please dont worry. You have always been the MOST gracious in anything you have said and I have come to value what you have to say on any site that I read. Thanks for your imput!Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04357293290630832549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-62892788944584038432008-04-10T20:26:00.000-04:002008-04-10T20:26:00.000-04:00Barb, I understand your point. It may be more dif...Barb, I understand your point. It may be more difficult for a stay-at-home mom, at least in some ways. I do not know what your schedule is like but one thing my wife does (she is SAHM)is look for places to serve that allow the opportunity to meet people. This does not have to be an all consuming place but one that puts here in the position of helping people. This has brought us into contact with some very interesting folks very different from us and in need of God's love expressed through us. <BR/><BR/>I want to be clear I was not trying to be harsh or criticize you in my earlier comment. If it came acorss that way I apologize. I trust Father will give you wisdom as you sort through this. I also think that over time it may look different. In other words, there may not be "the" answer but several answers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-28335636425621162622008-04-10T12:24:00.000-04:002008-04-10T12:24:00.000-04:00Tracy, Thanks for the vote of confidence. Like Hu...Tracy, Thanks for the vote of confidence. Like Husband said last night, we just really need to hear from God. And I think the hearing will not come from a "Word" but just simply seeing a need and then stepping into it. Right now there is no one asking for this around us.<BR/><BR/>Sarah, Yep! It really is that easy. If it weren't for the constant nagging that we should be 'doing' something more. Maybe it will happen when that voice quiets down in my head.<BR/><BR/>Jeff, You are welcome for the link. You have written some really good posts lately. You last reference is something I need to study. I have always heard it used to, in my case, make the case for AUTHORITY (not in little letters) of the leaders. I need to study the passage and see if Jesus was actually making that point with his story. I know, in my case it was used wrongly but I have never looked at it to see if it teaches a principal of authority and being under authority or what.<BR/><BR/>Jennifer, Thank you so much. Do you know I have never really had an in depth conversation with a catholic to see what they really believe and feel? We were always just "taught" what the Catholics (said in a disparaging kind of tone) believed. Your blog has been such an inspiration to me as I read how you process "religion" and make it so real and true in your life in a way that us Protestants never even start to understand. Your walk with the Father is so real and in so many ways humbling to me. Thank you for your prayers. I value them.<BR/><BR/>Traveller, thanks for the wisdom. I know it can happen. I guess my biggest concern is seeing it happen to a stay-at-home mom who has very little contact with the outside world - either Christian or non. I hear men speak of this way but many of them are out in "ministry" kind of ways which opens doors to them that I don't have accessible to me. It is almost like the pastor who advocates a 40 day juice fast for his church. Fine for him - he can cut back on his schedule, even take some time off to fast and pray. But for the pregnant mom at home with 4 little ones or the construction worker out in the hot sun, there is often not a way to do what the pastor does and therefore they are left with an empty bag that the enemy uses to fill with guilt. (Fasting is so much holier than taking care of your children...right? :( <BR/>So this is the biggest issue I have with my #1 option. <BR/><BR/>But I know Father knows exactly where I am and he is not wringing his hands wondering how to do any of this. I feel right now that I am on a "Fast of Seeing" Here's hoping that it will lead to a life of actually Trusting Father.Barbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04357293290630832549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-79684166406307801472008-04-09T19:12:00.000-04:002008-04-09T19:12:00.000-04:00Wow, this is almost exactly where I've been at. T...Wow, this is almost exactly where I've been at. That is amazing. We have the possibility of being in leadership in the church we've been attending. But the fear of submitting again is rough. Like the woman who was abused by her boyfriend trying to date again, but ducking every time the new guy moves suddenly.<BR/><BR/>But if we cannot take this step with them, and we decide to plant something (which was something we have seriously considered), we wouldn't have to commit ourselves to another person... but how right is that? <BR/><BR/>Ha, I feel like all I do in these blogs is say, yeah... me too... but I don't have an answer. Only more questions. :) Sorry. My heart is with you.Heidi Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01417459513387659018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-75448234810844865892008-04-09T18:40:00.000-04:002008-04-09T18:40:00.000-04:00Barb, I understand your fears and concerns. Your ...Barb, I understand your fears and concerns. Your number 1 is what I, along with some others, are experiencing now for a couple of years. Your assumption that 1 cannot involve meaningful deep relationships, I would suggest is incorrect. The fact that we do not have a "leader" who plans when we get together or what we do does not mean that the Spirit does not fill this role. For those who have never experienced this it seems so improbable and unlikely but I can assure you it is not only possible but a reality for some.<BR/><BR/>Is it easy? Is it immune to people at times attempting to takeover? No, of course not. But it is marvelous to watch the Spirit lead through the exercise of the gifts he has given within a group without having a "leader". "Leaders" are far less important than most people believe.<BR/><BR/>While I understand your concern about starting something. I believe you and Husband could start your numbers 1 or 3. No hurry.....when you are ready, if you ever are ready. The hardest part is the first step. Well, honestly, there will be some other hard times as well but that is the nature of relationships.....always messy. Being a follower of Jesus involves taking risks....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-82390853852693008012008-04-09T18:27:00.000-04:002008-04-09T18:27:00.000-04:00You've already gotten great advice -- continue to ...You've already gotten great advice -- continue to seek God's healing, pray -- that I don't have much to add. Just wanted to let you know that I'm reading and praying for you and, as always, I admire your honesty and humility.Jennifer @ Conversion Diaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11894992378619176830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-48795995177369644182008-04-09T18:18:00.001-04:002008-04-09T18:18:00.001-04:00Thanks, Barb, for your honesty and vulnerability, ...Thanks, Barb, for your honesty and vulnerability, and also for the link-love. :)<BR/><BR/>I know we only know of each other what we read on the blogs, but for what it's worth...I think a lot of your concern will be resolved in time as you continue to seek God's healing. Your lack of trust of leadership is absolutely understandable. But you obviously have not lost your respect for the concept of leadership--only the bad apples themselves. <BR/><BR/>To make a statement like you made at the end of your post actually demonstrates a good heart for leadership. True leaders WANT to be led themselves, because they know that to have authority they must submit to authority. (The Roman centurion who sought Jesus to heal his servant is a good example.)<BR/><BR/>No flippant predictions here...but in time, who knows?Wayward Sonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03473905074288264868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-89981453411517044622008-04-09T18:18:00.000-04:002008-04-09T18:18:00.000-04:00Thanks, Barb, for your honesty and vulnerability, ...Thanks, Barb, for your honesty and vulnerability, and also for the link-love. :)<BR/><BR/>I know we only know of each other what we read on the blogs, but for what it's worth...I think a lot of your concern will be resolved in time as you continue to seek God's healing. Your lack of trust of leadership is absolutely understandable. But you obviously have not lost your respect for the concept of leadership--only the bad apples themselves. <BR/><BR/>To make a statement like you made at the end of your post actually demonstrates a good heart for leadership. True leaders WANT to be led themselves, because they know that to have authority they must submit to authority. (The Roman centurion who sought Jesus to heal his servant is a good example.)<BR/><BR/>No flippant predictions here...but in time, who knows?Wayward Sonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03473905074288264868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-9186971535429758502008-04-09T13:11:00.000-04:002008-04-09T13:11:00.000-04:00Wow, this is really thoughtful post with some impo...Wow, this is really thoughtful post with some important questions. I guess the only thing you can do is pray. See what He says about it all. That's all any of us can do, right?Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02363410058108479951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-246437973827092428.post-51474842408034691482008-04-09T12:50:00.000-04:002008-04-09T12:50:00.000-04:00You know what? I think you would join a group led...You know what? I think you would join a group led by someone else, if--THE BIG IF!--you knew their heart was where yours is: Someone who believed that leadership is to be non-controlling, non-manipulative, mutually submissive, and humble in nature. I don't think you'd have any problems at with a group led by someone like that! The problem is, you'd have to join a group to find out if that were the case, and you know that those types of leaders are rarely found, so there's a good chance you'd be disappointed or burned unless you had some way of really coming to know the leader before you "joined" the group. <BR/><BR/>So, I don't think you should hold back because of this issue. Start it. Model it for others! Let it catch on like fire! <BR/><BR/>And that's what I think about that! :-)Tracy Simmonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17636022373370290350noreply@blogger.com