I Can't Believe I Once Believed This Stuff!!

I just received a letter from a "prayer warrior" of a leading man in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). It seems that Mr. and Mrs Wagner (I think he refers to himself as the "presiding apostle") have been experiencing some severe health issues. Doris has had knee surgery and it has become repeatedly infected and Peter has some heart issues. My heart truly goes out to these people. I know how scary these kinds of issues are - even to the point they are life threatening. I wish no harm to these folks.

BUT - O MY GOD. The letter that just went out yesterday getting people to pray is so much sadder than their physical conditions. They are essentially calling people to fast and pray for 40 days for the Wagners. No problem there. But the reason for the fasting and praying is this:

"(We) feel strongly that the warfare that is coming against Peter and Doris is a very high level of warfare. Especially, since Peter has been pulled into the public eye concerning the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). Consequently, there are pagan websites that are speaking about and against the Wagners and those associated with them and their stance on spiritual warfare. We are also all aware that we are in a season of "demonic high worship/holy days." (emphasis mine)

These people feel that the problems the Wagners are having are directly related to demons and people's curses. What an awful thing to believe. Essentially they are saying that your (our) God is not big enough to protect you (us). We now have to unpack our bag full of charms and trinkets to ward off the evil of these evil people. And just what is a "very high level" even supposed to mean? Can we just make this stuff up? I guess because of the "high position" that Mr. Wagner holds then it takes "high level of warfare" to come against him.

(Funny that I have not read that there may be sin in their lives because this is the accusation that many make against those outside of their group when we get sick or are in financial trouble. Did Peter and Doris repent of anything they could think of before they allowed hundreds of people to go without their breakfast for the 40 days? Or maybe they are out from under "covering!" That must be it because when we walked out of our last 'church' that is what was promised to us and we know that this "covering" is supposed to keep evil away - Right?)

This woman goes on to say :

It is obvious that we need to increase intercession for the Wagners during this crucial time. As the word of God clearly shares, "This kind will only come out by prayer and fasting."

So she takes a phrase out of the Bible (which I might add is disputed to be in the very original text itself) of Jesus casting out a demon that his followers were not having any luck with and applies it to this situation. Again, OMG!!

So they call as many people as can possible be rounded up (because we all know it is the numbers that will overcome this evil that has beset the Wagners) to pray against the demons that they have - or are being allowed to afflict them - or are in their general vicinity. At least the ones sent by those very evil pagans and their very evil pagan websites. See I told you we needed to rule and reign on those 7 mountains so our leaders can live a life of true health till they pass on into eternity through a non-sickness or non-accidental caused death.

Now I have been a bit tongue-in-cheek about this but truly I am aghast at what I used to live under, participate in and even teach. We have been called OUT OF FEAR based living. Where there is love there is no fear. Quit fearing the enemy that has been defeated and only has a hold on you if you believe his lies.

Pray for the Wagners - Yes. I believe in prayer. I believe in healing. But leave all the witchcraft to the "pagans" that you think are so evil. And while you are praying for the healing of Doris' knee and Peter's heart would you also pray that they and their followers quit living in fear and find the faith in the Father's care for them.

Jesus won didn't he? Can we act like it?

Spiritual Tyranny Dot Com

Here is a link I encourage you all to explore. In some way this author may have gotten pushed aside as simply a discontent from the Sovereign Grace Ministry churches. The site is MUCH more than that though. He speaks/explains fluently the language of tyranny in all forms - church, social, political. He does this by challenging the very basis of our preconceptions. I have been simply blown away by his ability to make me feel as if I am a rational, volitional thinking person capable of knowing Good and acting on it. (I'm growing a spine as I sit here and read :)

Here is one for those in controlling churches that I think you will be able to digest and go "OMG!! What was I thinking?" "Spiritual Crack" by John Immel

But don't just read this one article. Go back into his previous articles and simply read from the beginning. It will challenge everything you have ever believed but it will make you look into your heart and find that he speaks what we always knew was true and gives us a platform to actually build something.

Interested in church government? Leadership? Politics? or just simply are you in despair because of what you have walked through? Strap on a water bottle and grab your best hiking boots because this is not for the faint of intellect or spirit. (as an aside, there have been times where I wondered if I had the background to understand some of the things he is trying to explain. Hang in there. What you don't understand becomes clearer the more you read and exercise that part of the brain that may have laid dormant for a while. For you brainier bunch...you will have no trouble and actually enjoy the exercise.)

The Road To Restoration

I have written this post 3 times now. Each time I see what I have written and delete it. I'm so frustrated with what is being thrown around about this wonderful word 'Restoration.'

We are in the midst of a restoring war. We argue and squabble about restoring this man or that man.

We are now restoring in public so everyone supposedly knows what is going on. All the sins will be aired. We even get to send in our hard earned money to fund this process.

We are restoring for YOUR EDIFICATION. We are told that this circus is to encourage us, build us up.

We stand on each side of a river with the sinner in the middle and throw mud balls at each other about the restoration process. One one side we have the (purportedly) side of Grace. The other side that of (again purportedly) a Pharisaical spirit. Say ONE word and you are thrown to one side or the other and handed a mud ball to join in the fun.

I know that no one has asked me what I think. But this is my blog so if you are reading you are going to hear what I think.

I think everyone needs to put down their mud. I think we need to go and get the man out of the middle of the river and take him away from all of the circus. He can't and won't be restored while he is standing there. It was the center stage in the circus that helped to create the problem in the first place. In the place of quiet where everything is stripped away and nothing is promised he will find a place of true restoration.

There was a man once named Saul that needed restoration. He was a murderer. I think he disappeared for quite a few years. He somehow found the heart of the Father there. He never had the same stage as he had before. But everyone can agree that he was restored.

There was a woman once that needed restoration. Her name was Barbara. She abused others in the Body. She has gone through a process of about 2 years of what I would call restoration. She won't have the same position as before. Her restoration was TO SOMEONE not to a place or office or a gift.

And therein is what I think everyone is missing. We are not to see the end of restoration as an end of being back at the same place where we started. Sometimes we mess up enough that it physically can't happen. How can you be restored to a wife when you have married another? How can you be restored to a ministry when you destroyed it on your way out. How can you be restored to being fake when everyone now knows who you really are?


The restoration process is to restore our HEART back to the One who loves us. If our goal is to restore a person back to where they started he will forever remain unchanged. If we have any goal other than to restore the heart - to the Father - we will miss our mark entirely.

Closets and Keeping a Record of Wrongs or Not Forgiving

Given the comments on the last post of Closets and Leaving, I see that many people have experienced and felt the same. They too have dealt with leaving for sometimes a seemingly small thing only to realize that the things over the years that had not been dealt with and had been pushed into a "closet" in their spirits were the real reasons for eventually leaving a group or church.

In the comments, Mary touched on a topic related to this that I want to address. She said that if she spoke to anyone about all the things that she had in her 'closet' they would accuse her of keeping account of wrongs. I know about 10 years ago we went to the Leadership of our church with a written paper of the things that were bottled up in us that we felt were weakness and things to be addressed in our body and in the leaderships lives. Husband had gotten to a point where he was ready to break so he decided to go to them with the things he had not dealt with and talk it out with the head leaders. (understand we were also in a leadership position and had been told that we could bring up these kinds of things)

Basically things got aired out but then stuffed back into the closet. We were told that we were harboring unforgiveness, keeping a list of wrongs and that we needed to have our hearts right with the leadership. There were some, "I'm sorry you have been hurt," kind of things said to us but basically that was about it. To continue to push it any further would have made us look bitter, unforgiving, mean and petty. One pastor (brought in for mediation) gave us a book on being highly sensitive to try to understand why we would have such a problem with what was going on. (unbeknown to us at the time, the rest of the team was also having the same questions and later left because of them) So we stepped down from being an elder. Looking back now, it was all the same reasons that we eventually left for. We just had a fuller closet to deal with at the end.

In these kinds of groups you eventually learn that anything brought to the leadership only ends up in you being blamed for being too sensitive or not being loyal, for being petty or for being divisive. So you decide to try and live with it. In reality you are essentially asked to keep this closet. Not in so many words but everything is to be laid down and not brought up. You are supposed to "get over it," "get on to more important things," "quit thinking of yourself more highly than you ought," and "just chill out." So you just kept pushing stuff into the closet so as to keep peace.

You are asked to trust the leadership. They have the bigger picture. They know more than you do about each situation. There is always a reason for their actions. This is their church. They are the ones God has placed as the head. They are the Apostle and Prophet (pick your title). They have other men they are accountable to.

You can see why you would have such a 'closet' for the unfinished things you are seeing.

But my question is this: Is this truly keeping a record of wrongs? Is this closet full of not forgiving? Is it sin on your part?

Let me say first of all that it certainly can be. If you refuse to go to a person and let them know there is a problem, all the while adding things to the list.....that is keeping a record of wrongs. Or if you approach someone and tell them there is a problem and they tell you that they are sorry and deal with what is wrong - either change their behavior or try to explain how your offense is unwarranted and then you still don't forgive....that is not forgiving. But if you have learned that it is just not worth bringing up or if brought up will result in pain for you, you will eventually either have to leave or start a building project of your own to add onto the closet that you already have full.

Covering and Authority - New Site

I'm just finding lots of new sites to link to this week. Here is another one I just found.

It is called Covering and Authority and is the best site I have found yet that discusses the harmful practice/theology of being under 'Covering' or Authority.

For those of you who are not familiar, covering is a doctrine taught that says you have to be under a spiritual covering (of a church or leader) to be kept out of harm of the devil and bad things happening in your life. It espouses that all Christians need to be under authority to have anything good happen in their life or ministry.

I have written about the effects of it in my life throughout this blog. You can read some of them
here, here, here, and here if you are interested in the personal side to this doctrine.

Anyway, check the site out and link it where it is appropriate.

Someone To Read

I think I know my readership enough to know that you all will appreciate this guy's writings. His name is Steve Hill. (no another Steve Hill - not the one from Florida) He writes about leadership, apostles, tithing, humility and such. Go to his page and click around.

Start with his Prophetic Word for 2009. He nails it I think.

For another sample try this from his article, Apostles, Authority and the Kingdom of God:

“And he gave some to be apostles...”

When Jesus is the King of His Kingdom, we need a New Testament understanding of “apostle”. The picture of spiritual CEO at the top of the religious food chain is simply wrong. We know the word means “sent one” but may not realize that Paul’s use of the term is in the Greco/Roman business context regarding slaves. There was a fixed hierarchy among slaves from business directors down to those who did manual chores. The most expendable slave and thus, least honored, was the “sent one”. Why? Travel was often dangerous so those sent on errands near or far were those whose loss would be missed the least. They were the most expendable with the least status. Putting “apostle” on your business card then would be like putting “dishwasher” on your card now. \1

or on knowing your place as the leader from his article Better For You:

Jesus, the best, wisest, most anointed leader who ever walked on the face of the earth was leaving the men he had discipled for three years. Earlier He had called them "friends" and destroyed the possibility of any hierarchical system truly representing His kingdom but now he takes it all one step further! He is leaving the scene!
It is better that they know His indwelling presence by the Holy Spirit than for them to have His physical presence! It is better that His friends walk as He walked by inward revelation of the Father and His voice than by outward command! Jesus was so confident of the ability of the Holy Spirit to lead into all truth, to reveal His person and to reveal His Father that He was willing to leave. He was willing to trust His friends to the Holy Spirit! And we think we are needed? (emphasis mine!)

or in Discernment you can read about his take on John 3:15-17. Here he In I John 3:15- 17, here he talks about three agendas that capture our hearts and blind us.

Regarding giving so that your wealth will increase he says this in his article Most of what is taught about money is wrong,

Proverbs 22:16 is a very interesting verse, "He who oppresses the poor to increase his riches and he who gives to the rich will surely come to poverty." Why do we give to the rich? We hope for something in return! That is the same spirit as stealing from the poor! Jesus condemned our propensity to do things in hope of return and commanded us to serve those who cannot pay us back and to place treasure in heaven (Luke 14:12- 14).

Good stuff from someone who is doing the stuff - not just talking about it.

Covenant Breaking, Covering Doctrines and Hearing the Voices Again

Grace, at Kingdom Grace today, posted a bit about Covering and what people say when you have a string of bad things that happen to you. It was great fun in the comments as we poked fun at the doctrine and I chimed in with my few cents.

But this is a serious matter people. I still am reeling from this doctrine. I think it has been the hardest one to extract myself from.

See the other day I decided to do a piece on the practice we had in my old ‘church’ of making covenants. In leaving our group we were to have “broken covenant’ with all the people there. So I was going to write about what covenants are and aren’t and how this doctrine was used to keep people from questioning and leaving our group. I wanted to remember all that was preached so I went onto our old church website (now under a new name) and found the latest sermon on Covenants.

Sure enough there had been one preached in June of this year. As I listened I grew more and more disheartened. Covenant breakers were the evil that the Church needed to purge. They were the reason the harvest of souls were blocked. Those who broke covenant had marriages that had failed, children doing drugs and rebellion, insanity promised and the onslaught of homosexuality and other sins that attached themselves to you.

I knew what was being preached was garbage but then my weekend unfurled. I battled with a daughter over a decision that was going to hurt her – a decision that would have been harder to make had she surrounded herself with Christian friends. Then on Monday, TWO TRUCKS in my business broke down. One had the axle (or something connected to the wheels) actually fall out of the truck. Then an irate customer who was threatening to sue my company for something she perceived we had done. By the end of the day I was exhausted.

But more than that….I was hearing the voices again. “All this has happened because you are a covenant breaker.” “If you were in the ‘church’ you would be protected.” “God knows what you have been writing and thinking and talking with people about. You have talked ill of the brothers and therefore all these things are being allowed to happen.”

I was so mad at myself. I was ashamed to admit that I still heard these things in my head. I was flabbergasted that this man’s voice could silence the truth that I knew to be true.

So….no big ending here. I am more sane today. Best Friend spoke truth to me, Husband reminded me of times that were even worse – while still in the system, an adopted daughter laughed with me at myself, Grace’s post made me laugh too and another friend made me question what is still in my heart that I don’t really believe about God that shows itself when things like this happen.

I guess I just write to let you know that the journey takes a couple of steps backwards every now and then. I think that I’m not the only one who struggles so don’t despair when you find yourself having to deal with it again.

"The Kingdom of Wordland' by VF @ Clarity Rediscovered

I found this series of posts from a blogger who goes by VF at Clarity Rediscovered. It is an allegory with 5 chapters (short posts) that was both staggering in some of its similarity to our own situation and hauntingly prophetic as to what we see the path our CLB is taking.

This is another one of those, "You mean we are not the only one?" kind of moments.

The Kingdom of Wordland

Chapter One: In the Beginning

Chapter Two: Trouble Brews For the Wordlanders

Chapter Three: The Big Move

Chapter Four: A Mass Exodus

Chapter Five: The Aftermath

Upside Down Kingdom

I love what I am seeing in scripture lately. I love it when it rocks my world with it's upside down way of seeing the Kingdom.

Internet Monk had a link the other day to Greg Boyd's website where, starting in October, they are beginning a series of weeks looking at some of the parables of Jesus and how he turns the thinking of the day upside down. It is entitled: The Great Reversal - The Upside Down Kingdom of God. I went onto the site and just browsed the passages he uses and then especially the cultural context that Jesus spoke into. I urge you to do the same.

Some of the ones that really stood out to me was how the world then viewed the poor, sick and destitute people. Like I wrote yesterday, both the rich and the poor believed that God did not love the poor and had no desire to be around them. Your riches were proof that God was on your side and blessing you.

One thing that Boyd points out is the importance of being asked to a banquet. See, in that day to be asked to a banquet showed your status in the city. Even where you sat at the table would show your importance. So when Jesus tells the story of a man throwing a banquet for his friends and his friends coming up with a lame excuse to not attend, it was a major slap in the face of the host. You never turned down an invitation. It was a major honor in that time to be asked to a banquet. Someone was spending a ton of money on the food. Therefore, it would mean the end of your relationship if you declined - especially for such a lame reason. So when Jesus then said that the host gave instructions to his servant to go to the highways and byways to compel the outcasts to come to his banquet...it was a HUGE deal. The most interesting thing is the word compel. See, these people had to be compelled to come because in that culture, even if they were invited, they were supposed to turn down the invitation(!!!) because they were not favored enough of God. You would never accept the invitation, because to do so was dishonoring your host.

Just the idea that Jesus loves us so much that he compels us to come to Him. Even when we have screwed up so much that we can't see why he would want us to come. Plus, Boyd pointed out that, in actuality, there was enough food prepared that there would have been enough for the original guests and those that were invited later. (He doesn't hate the rich either)

The other one that really struck me was the passage where the Pharisees came to him with the disciples of John and accused Jesus of eating and drinking with the sinners (not necessarily those who sinned but this bunch that were labeled outcasts because of their disease or poverty or lifestyle) Boyd says that the word for eating with the sinners implies that Jesus was actually hosting banquets and inviting the oppressed in.

I had never thought of Jesus hosting a banquet. I just always saw him as having no home therefore he always attended someone elses' house. But just the thought that Jesus hosted these people warmed my heart. No wonder the Pharisees got so bent out of shape. Jesus was not just ministering to these people, he was honoring them. And they (the Pharisees) were not getting invited to sit at the important seats.

I also loved the one where he was eating at a banquet at some Pharisee's house (the last one he was invited to by the way! ;P) Jesus told a story and began it with something like this. "Suppose you were a shepherd and had 100 sheep. You lost one....." He goes on from there. But the funny thing was that he said, "Suppose you were a shepherd." See, shepherds were one of those 'sinner' type people. They were the ones that God did not like. It would be like sitting down with a bunch of prophets, pastors and self proclaimed apostles today and starting a story like this; "Suppose you were a male prostitute..." You can hear the silence! "How dare he!!!"

I love the heart of Jesus today and want him to show me some more of his upside down kingdom as it relates to my own life.



A beer to Naked Pastor for use of his brilliant comic.

The Kingdom of God is Not For Sale

And sometimes I really do wonder if it is all about the Money! (I could give you more links but then my blood pressure goes so high)

It takes only a brief glimpse of the websites of the men and women from the Apostolic streams before you find yourself consistently hitting your head against the same thing.

Money.

"We need more of it. We need to find the roadblocks in our lives that are hindering the wealth transfer that is supposed to come into the ‘kingdom.’ The gates need to be opened. You seed needs to be sowed (here of course.) The kingdom needs both kings and priests. The Kingdom of God needs money to finance it. You need to partner with us." They have MARKETPLACE APOSTLES!!!

thinking to herself in true Jim Gaffigan style......I wonder if James or John was one of those. Maybe Lazarus - he was wealthy enough to have a home where his sisters lived with him....I know!!!! - Zacchaeus, when he got saved become one. Yes that is it. I should write a book and go on tour)

Money, Money, Money.

If they don’t state it upfront you can be sure they always get around to it.

They have the gall to quote Paul. Paul, who never lived the good life, who thanked people for their offerings while he was in prison. Paul who commended churches for their giving out of their significant need themselves. They make Paul their spokesman. How dare they?

I hate to border on bitterness - but when it comes to this subject I boil.

This is a deal breaker with me. I instantly distrust a ministry that participates in this crap. Oh, I have heard all the excuses. I know all the rationale and reasoning. Remember, I lived in thier camp.

So don’t try to tell me that you are raising money for the Kingdom of God and then spend it on yourself. Why not be real? Tell the truth.

Try this as an example of honesty:

I want to do this service for you. I want to teach you this, provide you with this or offer this. You won’t get a better seat at my conferences. I won’t pray for your family. I won’t give you special prophetic words. If you give me money I will tell you exactly what I am going to spend it on. I won’t change my mind without asking your permission. If you gave it for one purpose and I decide to do something else, I will give it back to you.

If the Kingdom of God sprouts out of this transaction - then all the better but I am not going to offer the Kingdom of God for sale here. The Kingdom of God is not to be purchased, bought, bartered, or bribed. It is not to be coerced, threatened, manipulated or begged for. The Kingdom of God is not a commodity. I will not offer it for sale and you will promise not to try to purchase it from me.

If you want to put seed into the Kingdom of God, take the money and go and DO something yourself. Love someone. Feed someone. Give to those who have nothing.

There ends my rant for this evening.

Where Dominionist Theology Gets Off Track

I caught a bit of a sermon on You Tube this morning that caused me to pause and go, “Ahhhhhh, that's the problem!”

The 10 minute clip is from October 16, 2005 at Wasilla Assembly of God Church, where Sarah Palin is being prayed for on by a man with the last name of Muthee. He gives a quick explanation of a dominionist theology agenda and then prays for her. (Wow, this took me back to my CLB)

(Now, I don’t believe all the reports of Sarah Palin being the secret operative for the New Apostolic Reformation or any other garbage. I think she is a woman who may attend these churches and may even ascribe to their theology but it stops there. Read what Grace says here.)

What was so interesting to me was this: The man describing dominionism theology did not think that salvation alone was enough for the world! Look at what he says:

When we talk about transformation of a community we are talking about God invading 7 areas of our society…… It is where we see God’s kingdom infiltrate and influence 7 areas in our society. Number one is the spiritual aspect of our society. Namely, the church for a long time has just concentrated on that dimension.. We want people saved, we want them to go to heaven, we want them delivered and that is it. But I tell you something if all we do is to come to the church, get people saved and then they go…I don’t think much will happen in our society. So the second area whereby God wants to penetrate in our society is in the economic area……" (emphasis mine)

He then begins to talk of how he believes the Kingdom of God will come to earth. He briefly covers economic (The wealth of the gentiles are store up for the righteous, we need bankers, yada, yada, yada…), politics, (did you know that the people that split churches have the gift of politics?), education, (“if we had them {christian educators} the 10 commandments would not have been kicked out of the schools.” - as a side note….can I ask a question here? Why do Christians even want the LAW returned to the schools? Don‘t we believe in Grace now?) media, the arts and government.

I finally understood why this was and is so important to these Churches and their congregations. I finally found someone willing to admit that they don’t think the gospel - the simple gospel - will work. They are tired of doing it the hard way. They don’t see immediate fruit of nations being changed. They don’t believe the gospel is enough. One life radically changed for God is not enough. They need to add to the gospel all this other stuff so they can see it happen, now - today. After all if we wait for each person to get saved then it will take forever to see change take place in a nation.

Oh my God! This makes so much sense to me.

Instead of adding to our faith goodness, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness and love - instead of that being enough - we are to add kingdom strategies of wealth building, spiritual warfare, binding and loosing, breaking open hidden gates of the kingdom, education reform, apostolic alignment and whatever else they devise will help God out in his bid for this world.

Their God is weak! He needs us!

Ok, I can hear Husband now…..”Temper it a bit, Barb” (not that he ever actually says that to me, I just hear him thinking it)

We do need politicians that are Christians and I love it when my kid has a Christian teacher in his room. I love the fact that my elected officials may be able to call on God for help in a decision and God knows, I wish for some Christian godliness in Wall Street. The difference though, I think, is this. I want people to know my God, be saved from a life of self, be delivered from the enemy’s grip and walk in freedom and Grace. Then, AS THEY GO - I want them to change the world around them. The plan is for their salvation. The result is the change in their world.

I think that men and women who ascribe to the theology of the man in the video have got their priorities backwards. Their plan is the change of society and as a result people will be saved.

Two very different approaches. Two very different outcomes if you ask me.

Unfortunately, I think if they have their way we will be back to legislated religion. And then the witch trials, the dunkings and the burning at the stakes will begin.

On The Selling of Donkeys, Bright Lights and Charismania

You need to understand something before you read this post. I love Graham Cooke. Of the men in my stream of Charismatic faith that I am most familiar, he is the one voice that I consistently love to hear. His understanding of the Father and His ways, leave others behind in the dust. His teachings have pulled us through so many hurtful times in our lives where we have brokenly asked the Father to give us some sort of revelation on what we were experiencing. Add to that my delight in reading him say that the minute he gets a business card from someone and sees the word “apostle” before the name he throws it immediately into the trash and I was a fan for life.

The other day though I listened to a short 10 minute clip (view here if you like) of a story he told of a man in the midst of going about his busy life, who suddenly hears weeping from his neighborhood that no one else on the sidewalk can hear. After a few days of feeling like he was crazy he understood it to be a sound that God wanted him to hear. It changed this man’s life and it has changed the neighborhood that he now lives in and loves.

I loved the story and am still glad that after coming out of much of “charismania” I still believe that God does things like this. But at the end of the story, Graham does something that I believe epitomizes the charismatic renewal and the major problem that I have with the whole thing.

He says this at the end of the story: “It makes you really wonder about what sounds we are too busy to listen to. And I wonder sometimes if we stopped on the street and listened in the realm of the spirit…Would we be able to hear the sound that God is hearing in a neighborhood, in a community. And if we heard that voice…what might God be asking of us? What request might come from heaven that might radically change our life.”

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't have gone there. My problem with the exhortation that Graham gives at the end is this: Why take this story and make it about us and what we need to be doing? Why not glory in the fact that we have a God who, when He wants us to hear Him, makes sure we can. A God who wants to communicate with us. A God who will not be missed. A God who, even if we are busy on our own path - as this man was - will still break into our world and speak to us. Why take this story and then make it something that we have to do? Something we have to replicate?


This story is not primarily about us trying to hear God!!! It is about God making Himself heard! (and of a man's obedience when he hears God) It is a story of hope. It is not a story of “should” or duty.


In my old church - we would have used this story to start a new ministry of going around our neighborhoods trying to hear the voice of God. It would bring the guilt of not doing something (in this instance - listening for the voice of God) and the anxiety that we would miss something big - which always seemed to be accompanying my life :)


And that is what charismatics do so well. They take a “happening” of God. A healing, a time of visitation, a time of soaking, a time of laughter and joy, a time of weeping or a really great story and try to duplicate it the next night and the next night. Suddenly you have the “anointed” one that will bring this “happening” to your group. Soon he will have conferences to speak at and books to write so that others can have this happen to them too. It becomes about the man or woman and not about the God who did a work one day in a specific place at a specific time.


Of course we should have our ears attuned to what God has to say. Listening for the voice of God is a good thing to do. There is nothing evil in what Graham is saying - In fact in his defense I know that I were sitting with him and discussing this post I am sure he would agree with me. But it is a brilliant example of the replication of the charismatic experiences that we see today.


He loves me. He wants to communicate with me. And if he has something important to say He might just show up and knock me off my proverbial donkey, blind me with a bright light and speak out loud to me.


Now here's hoping that if that does happen I won't go towards the mass marketing of the selling of donkeys and bright spotlights and calling it God.

Straw Man Arguments

In my wandering around the ‘net this week and reading about what people are saying about the meetings going on in Lakeland, Florida I have been again pulled through so many emotions as thoughts go whirling around in my head. At times I am ready to just give grace to all involved with a totally open hand and heart. At other times I’m ready to take out another add in the local newspaper and decry, “What the Hell are you all thinking!!”

Again my schizophrenia rears its ugly head.

But then I found an article the other day that made me realize at least to some extent why I am so affected by this whole subject.

The article can be found at here. It is entitled: The Holy Ghost Straw Men: Full Gospel Excuses For Error

While I don’t agree with the author in some of his arguments I do agree with his main point. There are seven main statements that we, in the Charismatic circles, have been taught over and over again to hide bad theology, bad practices and sometimes bad behavior and character. These “Straw Men Arguments” as the author calls them are the arguments that keep us quiet and in our seats and not questioning or thinking for ourselves.

Here are the arguments with just a bit of my own explanation of how they were used in the Charasmatic circles I was familiar with:

1) “We need a fresh word for today” Meaning the Bible was an old word and the fresh and new revealed word of today was really important. When it was brought up that it contradicted the Bible, the re-interpretation of the Bible began with criminal hermeneutics. The “fresh word” was what was important and those speaking it were not to be questioned.

2) “We are not bound by tradition” Religion was dead. Haughtiness reigned as the words were spoken and intoned that WE – those who have a clue – were not bound by yesterday’s traditions. Never mind that our own traditions were just as binding as any that we had left. If you questioned their practices or theology you were told that you were bound up in the old ways and not open to what God was doing now.

3) “God offends the mind to reveal the heart” While I believe that this is actually a true statement, those that wanted to used this against the sheep did so with a relish. ANY practice or any bad behavior on the part of the leaders could be excused because it was good to have our minds offended by the Holy Spirit. If the pastor yelled at you and lost his temper he could state that it was good for you and built character. If absolutely CRAZY things started happening and someone was taken aback or offended, this straw man was pulled out and oftentimes the reasoned explanations were glossed over with just a few words like these. It ultimately made you feel like God routinely needed to offend you because your heart was so blind and bad.

4) “Touch not the Anointed: Do his prophets no harm” I have already dealt with this in a few of my posts. It is the biggest straw man of the hierarchical type churches. We were told that even if the leaders were wrong, we would be saved from bad things happening to us because we were submitted.

5) “Judge not lest you be judged” While the myriad of verses that teach us to judge in and of our own right were forgotten, this one was given especially if we were questioning leadership. It is funny, they could judge us, proclaim our children to have a sexual spirit, tell us that we were full of pride, tell us our cars were dirty and needed to be washed, or hold us accountable for being rebellious but we did not have that privilege to do the same except over our own lives or those that they had put under us. Judgment always extended down in the pyramid – never up.

6) “Doctrine is just someone’s opinion” This one was used often especially if you had any formal training in the study of the Bible. Husband had his Masters of Divinity from Southwestern Seminary and our pastor did not have any formal training whatsoever. Maybe men like this are afraid but we were told early on that doctrine separates men where love and covenant keep them together. At first we saw the wisdom of that statement – who does not know of good friends splitting over minor doctrinal differences, but what we did not know is that doctrine was also not understood or honored in any way. This led to various teachings coming and going with no thought to what it would mean in the long run. No one had any basis for their faith except what they believed the Bible was saying to them. It gave the churches no foundation. They oftentimes had a formal doctrinal statement but had no idea what it meant or how to keep any order to the “new word” that was being spoken. We were also told how seminaries were now of no use and how the conferences of today were going to replace the training of the “army of God.” Many, many of these men had no formal training.

7) “God is doing a new thing” Again, this one was used over and over again. I got tired of God’s supposed “new thing” in our own group. It seemed most times that the new thing was just the abandonment of something else that wasn’t working. The new thing could be the new leadership raised up (because of the old leadership was leaving – again), a new pet project of the leaders or the fact that we now had to all dress up to come to church so that we gave respect to the Apostle who was visiting. And don’t forget the “new things” that were just around the corner. If I had a dollar for the New Years Eve prophecies of the year of the “New Thing” I would at least be $19.00 richer. It never came – but we waited in expectation for finances to be blessed, abundance to spring forth and our church to grow to thousands.

It hit me last night that as Husband and I read through the entire article that these seven phrases, taught over and over again to us, (some) were not all bad in and of themselves. Some of them even had truth attached to them. But added together and spoken hundreds and hundreds of times they became the cords that bound us to silence. These ‘straw men arguments” on their own in the hands of a man or woman of integrity and humility would not hurt many. But put these arguments into the hands of someone who is out to build their own kingdom and you might as well just leave now before you are wearing imprints of tire treads on your backside.

Listen carefully the next time you hear any one of these preached or spoken. Ask what is really going on. Ask, investigate, judge and pray. Don’t be bound by these straw men any longer.

Ht to David Hayward at Nakedpastor for the comics. I bought him a beer!

Taking Our Cities For God

Abmo over at Windblown Hope has added another layer onto Heather’s original post that has already stirred so much good discussion. He asks this question about the phrase that we all proclaimed in our charismatic services about how we were going to, “Take our city for Christ.” He poses this question after discussing how utterly hard it is to try to even describe what this might mean.


He says, “Then a thought hit me over the head. How would a town/city look like when it’s been won for Jesus? What kind of a town would it be? This could be fun. What do you think a town/city would look like, if it’s been won for Jesus?”


I have two paragraphs. My first paragraph is what I think they (the churches that I participated with) meant when they said this. The second paragraph is my answer to what I think it would mean if I ever saw a city “Taken for Jesus.”


My CLB (church left behind) was BIG on government. So one of the first evidences to them that our city had been “taken for Christ’ would be if all the churches in the area came under the governmental rule of one Apostle. (Usually this apostle would be speaking of himself as "The Apostle") This would be unity of the brethren that they believed the Bible talks about. But not only the churches. The businesses would also have apostolic men in them that were ranked under the key apostles. The police department, the hospital, the mayor’s office, all would have godly men submitted to the men that God had placed above them. (The Apostle) They believed that then and only then could the Kingdom of God be brought into a city. We were taught that when God’s government was in place then the power of God would be released in a city to experience the glory of his presence. People’s lives would be changed. They would become Christians and be involved in our apostolic churches. Even other denominations would see the unity and want to come under this covering. One City, One Church, One head – the Apostle. Godly government would release prosperity. It would release the favor of God on the city. The city would be under apostolic covering and so it would be protected from the ravages of the enemy. It would become a kind of a utopia. A city of refuge. Crime would decrease. Corruption would not be found and Jesus’ prayer that God’s will would be “done on earth as it is in heaven” would have come into being.


This is what is being preached in more and more churches across our nation and now into the world. C. Peter Wagners’ New Apostolic Reformation and the International Coalition of Apostles believe this. Most of the men preaching this believe that they or a very small handful of men like them are the ones who should rule and reign with God’s blessing over the cities and churches in an area. If you hear the words used like Apostle, covering, governmental, apostolic authority, or any thing like this, stop and ask some questions. In my opinion it is a structure being erected by men (some well meaning – some in it for their own power needs) to build their own kingdom. It has the potential for spiritual abuse like no other system since the crusades. Already, if you do not agree with the Apostle’s agenda you are demonized and called rebellious – not only to the man preaching – but to God himself. They are speaking in behalf of God and his will for you and this earth, and that my friend is just downright dangerous.


I therefore would not use the phrase “Take our city for Jesus.” I don’t believe it will happen until the physical rule of Jesus is on the earth and I have NO idea how that will ultimately happen or how it will look.


That said, let me say this; I do believe that there has been and will be awakenings in cities and regions before He comes. I believe that through the divine hand of God there will be times where the Spirit awakens those in a single region or city to an awareness of the Grace of God in Jesus. Many will turn to Him. If it is a real move of the Spirit it will result in Grace being poured out to the poor and the broken. The key financial aspect of it will be that of sharing with each other as in the move of the Holy Spirit in Acts. The only covering done will be that of one brother to another in forgiveness and reconciliation. The only government will be that of Grace and Mercy to our fellow man/woman. The only refuge will be in each others homes and hearts to those who need a place that is safe. The only unity will be that of love. It won’t be controlled, ruled over or manipulated. The leaders will not find them selves having more power – just more of their own lives to lay down. The city will not be “taken for Christ.” Christ instead, will be received into that city – received into the hearts and minds of individual people who will be changed – thus changing their surroundings.


I would love to hear and read about what you think about this phrase. Please consider yourself tagged. You can answer anything you want about what it means to you when you hear the words, “take our city for God.” But I kind of already know what those whom I read will answer. I already know their hearts and have read their writings enough to know I will be encouraged by their answers. The people I would love to hear from are those who lurk around these sites who read and never write anything. So if that is you today, consider yourself tagged. If you don’t have a blog to link to in the comments section just leave it as a long comment and be sure to tell people over at Windblown Hope that you are chiming in on this one.

Blessings

Friendship - Through Thick and Thin

The leaving of our old “church” left us bereft of friends. People who had lived with us, others who had known us for 20 or more years, no longer called, wrote or visited. Our house – once lively and full of friends day after day, was now mostly quiet.

Best Friend still was the same – as was the rest of her family. (They eventually left also) A few would go out for coffee if we asked - but most just acted as if we no longer existed.

The purpose of this post though is to tell you about the one couple that toughed it out. They were really good friends. We had been there from the conception of their relationship, the wife had lived with us for a few months, we had been at their wedding and we were in the midst of witnessing their first pregnancy. They ate dinner with us at least twice a week. We were very close. So when everything hit the fan it was very hard for them. They thought we had lost our minds. After all, it had been us to whom they had come with questions when things did not make sense. We had been the ones that talked them into staying a few times. We were the ones that told them that we didn’t want them to miss out on their destiny or leave the covering. Now we were the ones leaving, and with virtually no explanation.
One thing you need to remember. Seldom was there one in our group who spoke aloud their questions or voiced their problems to anyone else. And never had there been a leader who had. Not one. Even as we went through the process of leaving, Best Friend did not know. A girl that was living with us had no idea that something was up, and this couple, the closest people to us at the time had no clue that we were having a hard time or on the verge of leaving.

So when we had the final meeting with the Apostle and the Prophet of the church, and the leaders subsequently “explained” everything to the church that very night, our friends were virtually blindsided. We had tried to prepare them a few days before but again, we did not want to speak badly of the leadership or the problems we were having, so we were purposefully vague.

They came over that night, after the members had met and heard the “explanation” from our leaders. They cried. They were so mad at us. “How could you of all people leave,” they raged at us. We tried to explain it a bit without saying anything, my tongue tied by the teaching of “Not Touching the Lord’s Anointed.” By the time they left that night we thought we had lost their friendship.

But you know what? They waited a few days and then came over to tell us that they loved us and that they did not know what in the world was up but that we were “family” and they were not going to cut us off. They stayed.

It was hard at first. It was so awkward. Without the “Church” we had no common topics of conversation. If “church” did come up, we were so angry that it became impossible for us to really talk to them. They were not in a place yet of hearing us. So we kept the conversations ‘”safe.” It was still hard. All their friends were in the old church. The people that we had taught them to trust were still there. Nothing had changed except for our seeming disobedience of “walking out of covenant.” But they were determined to still love us and so they continued to come over.

Can I tell you what that did for me? It saved my life. It made me believe that true covenant, true friendship, was actually possible. That it was possible to actually work through something awkward and really, really hard with someone outside of your own family. (by the way, Best Friend actually falls into this category too but our friendship had been tested through the years by so much other stuff that this event actually did not strain it much)

As the months rolled on we became more open with our story. I think we also became less angry and more apt to talk about the whole situation where someone could listen to it and not be offended. They listened, they helped us process, they continued to love us. These “kids” (the age of our own older children) actually gave correction and asked some very hard questions.

This couple moved away this weekend. They are off to start another chapter in their lives and we could not be happier for them. That is what kids grow up to do. But I want them and you to know something. While I know they would tell you that we gave of our own lives. And I know they realized over and over the value of those dinners and a place to call home when they needed it. But the one thing that they will never realize is the place that they have in Husband’s and my and my family’s heart for doing the one thing that meant the most to us during this crazy, crazy year. They chose to love us – even when they thought that we might be wrong and deluded and crazy. They chose us.

And that, my friends, is true friendship. And for that I will forever be grateful. And to the both of you guys, may God richly reward you with friendships like you have been to us. Friendships, that will lift you up and sustain you through the toughest of times. And friendships that will in turn show you the heart of the Father towards us, his kids.

Subtle Changes

Alert: For those of you who are not familiar with phrases such as; Spiritual Warfare, Ruling and Reigning, Cleansing the Land, Ruling Spirits over a Region, Spiritual prayer over a region or a city or the names of Cindy Jacobs or Dutch Sheets, you can just skip over this post. You really won’t understand it except to rejoice with me that these things are not part of who I am now. Go have a cup of coffee and thank Father that you don’t have this stuff to purge from your lives.

One of the surprising things in this journey has been watching myself change in very subtle ways. There have been moments of extreme change in how I view things or how I may act now (like my last posts details- Thanks to all the wahoos offered there) but those are easy to see and notice. Other things are changing though and I didn’t decide to change them…they just are different now.

I was driving with Husband to Georgia for a brief visit with his parents this weekend. We love to drive and it was a good get-away. Mostly our driving time was in listening to Rob Bell preach and then listening to Wayne Jacobsen’s series on Transitions. Great time together. We love driving and processing together.

The thing I noticed though was during a quiet period. Husband drove past a small city in Maryland or somewhere along the way. As we passed over the bridge and I took in the downtown section I thought to myself, “I bet there are great people there. I could live there I think.”

Now this might not be amazingly different for you to imagine someone thinking but let me in on what I might have said just a year ago in passing this city.

“Hmmmm…I wonder what spirit resides here in this city. It feels dark and controlled. I bet there are people who are praying here against the darkness. Maybe from that hill over there. Yes, that would be the spot to pray from. Wow, I bet the churches in this area are not even aware of the presence that I feel here. Probably not an apostolic presence in this city at all.”

Does that weird you out or what???? EWWWWWWWW!

This trip, I loved driving past cities and just loving the people in them. Realizing that Father is especially fond of them and desired a relationship with them. I laughed and cringed at what I would have thought before. What a waste of time and how inflated my ego to think that I could even know that stuff. It makes you constantly alert and fearful because the enemy is sooooo big. In that alertness you miss on the simple act of loving the people there and dreaming of a possible relationship with them.

I really am beginning to like me so much better now. I bet the people in that town would too.

Silence Is Not Golden - It's My Time To Speak

UPDATE:

To all....I did call my (former) wonderful friend on Wednesday. She assured me that to be in contact with me would just cause her to look at issues that she just can't afford to look at right now. It was heartbreaking to hear the fear in her voice. We won't have any contact from this point out but I got to tell her that I loved her and when she did have the freedom to look at the issues, she was always welcome at my door. (even if she did not want to talk about anything church related) I was eleated to get to talk to her and really end it for the time being. My only hope is that they are now in the position that Husband and I had left in leadership. NO ONE HAS EVER LASTED IN LEADERSHIP THERE!!! So it is just a matter of time before I get to have a real relationship with her again. And I assured her that I would never be angry enough at her to not be her friend in the future. I was so excited to address the elephant in the relationship that I danced around the house the rest of the day. Truth truly is freeing! And I love elephants!

I will no longer be silent!

I feel this today as clearly as I felt that we were to leave our CLB.

For the past year (except for a letter to two friends the first week we left) we have not initiated any relationships other than the ones who sought us out and those whom had already left the church.. We have worked hard sometimes to keep those – especially in the beginning – but we have not gone to our former friends to see if they wanted to have any sort of relationship with us.

But somewhere in the past few weeks I have decided something. I’M NOT WRONG!!

Now, I may not be entirely right. In fact I can say quite emphatically that I am certain that I am not entirely right on how I see facts from our past or our present situation. Really, that does not bother me anymore. I don’t have to be completely right. What a freedom that is!!

Husband has always said that when I finally decide that I have done nothing wrong, I will be dangerous. He was right because what has kept me quiet all this time is that I felt that somehow, I was missing something. Somehow, I was reading the situation at our CLB wrong. Somehow, I would find out that really they were not as deceived as I thought they were. Somehow, I deserved to have relationships cut off. Somehow, I had done something really wrong. Somehow, what I had done necessitated my not being able to have relationships with these people.

I felt like I needed to just disappear from their lives so that they could go on unhindered in the church life that they have. If I saw them, I needed to just tell them that I loved them and “be nice to them.” I felt that I should not be the one to address the proverbial elephant that was standing in the corner of our conversation.

Then Daughter taught me a lesson the other day. She ran into some of our leaders unexpectedly. They waved and smiled. She approached them and without a lot of anger told them that it was not appropriate with what they have done to simply smile and wave at her. She stood her ground. She pointed out the elephant between them and her. She told them that she was not going to play the games and then turned and left.

Know what? In addressing the real issue that is between her and them, she felt free for the first time since she left. Fear rolled off her. She is a new person today. She is no longer slinking around. She is no longer afraid. She found freedom! I was so proud of her. To our knowledge, no one has had the guts to do what she did.

If people are willing to talk, we are ready to talk. I re-read every blog that I have posted. I would love to sit down with ANYONE and discuss the things that I have written. I’m not ashamed of my journey since last March. In fact I think I have something to say!

I am not wrong. There are problems with my CLB. For instance, I can show you multiple sites that have lists of what makes a church a cult and my former ‘church’ fits all but one or two of each list! There is a problem there. I did not make up the lists. Nor did they visit our group and then make up the list. The lists FIT!! This is not my problem! We did not know this when we left. We just knew that the leadership was way too interested in their own position of Apostles and Prophets and in ranking themselves above all the rest of us.

I have learned enough now though to quit doubting my own sanity. I have learned why we are shunned. I have learned more about the whole movement of the New Apostolic Reformation. I have learned what about it I agree with and what about it I abhor. And, I have decided not to be quiet and play along with the whole thing when I have the chance.

Now, let me say this to alleviate the minds of all those who think I’m going to go off half cocked. I’m going to try and not be foolish about this. I am not going to go and intentionally stir up trouble. Wayne and Brad on their last podcast said something to this effect, “Don’t go and start a war in someone’s heart before it is Father’s time.” Therefore, I am not going to go and write to everyone who is there. There will be no mass emails, phone calls or visits. But to those that I just ‘happen’ to run into, I just may address the elephant in the room.

Maybe not, we’ll see.

I will not slink around them though as if I have done something wrong any more though. I will not play the game any longer as if I deserve to be shunned. If someone is uncomfortable talking to me I am apt to ask them why all the discomfort. If they ignore me, I am apt to ask why they do that. If they pretend that everything is just fine, I may ask why they are pretending with me when I know they have huge problems with me.

And, I am going to call two close former friends and ask them if they want me to leave them alone or if there is a way to have a friendship in the midst of all of this. At least I will know and not be left to my assumptions. Knowing is always better for me.

Will let you know how it goes.

Religion and Fear

Larry Norman died last week. I read about it on many blogs. I am old enough to remember his music and so I kept wondering why I had not liked his music. You need to realize that I love music. All kinds. I listen to everything and actually enjoy it all. I can have my windows rattling with Bach or Mozart just as they could be rattling with the latest Rap from Eminem. And when the whole Christian Rock was born I had all the new records. Sandy, Amy, Keith, Love Song……Lend an ear….to a love song….oooh a love song….(Sing along now) So why did I not listen to Larry Norman?

It wasn’t until I read Brant’s post last week that I remembered why. It was those movies – A Thief in the Night, Left Behind. Larry’s most famous song was the soundtrack to those movies. No wonder why I was not fond of him. He was my introduction to FEAR IN RELIGION.

My introduction to fear in the church came at a very young age. Now that I think back on it I am outraged. What person lets a little kid watch such a movie? Now, I had “asked Jesus in my heart,” when I was 5. It was real to me and I really think that something supernatural was placed in me that night. With the rules of the game, I was safe – I was saved and going to heaven – I would be raptured when it happened. But I didn’t feel safe. I was always panicked anytime I could not find my parents. I forever worried about driving along in a car and the driver being ‘taken’ and the rest of us left to die in a fiery crash. If my parents were even 5 minutes late getting home I had a stomach ache. (Oh, for cell phones)

It is funny. We believed in eternal salvation but you were never sure that if you were to have been found at a dance or a movie theatre or even just thinking a bad thought - and the rapture occurred – would you really be taken? Because of this doctrine I lived my life in fear. Fear of not being good enough and fear of being left to being marked by the Beast and forever out of the grace of God.

I was 25 before I met a kind pastor that blew away this theology in 2 hours one night. I had never even met a Christian before that did not believe in the rapture. We had heard about such heretics in my Bible School but no one had ever told me that true Christian men and women did not all believe the same things. My world was rocked and I cried for the next week. How in the world had I been taught these things without saying that there at least were other ways to view what the Bible was saying? Why was I not taught that this was a new belief of only a few hundred years old? Why was I not taught that it was actually the Scofield Bible’s notes that made this doctrine preached in the United States so widely? For something so fundamentally believed and accepted in my little life, why was I not given all the facts and then allowed to make my own decision?

But that is not the reason for this post. The reason I wanted to talk about this today is because I got very used to fear in my faith. Those in authority used fear to control their congregations. In a podcast from Wayne and Brad last week (Freedom from Fear) they cited an article that said that fear can be the most controlling force in a person’s life.

That got me thinking. I could look back into my childhood and see where fear was used by the church (and I hated it) but I wanted to look forward….after I changed my theology….to see if fear had still been used to control me. How did the whole Charismatic theology manifest fear in my life, and was I still under fear today?

Here are some ways I thought of:

There was a huge fear of the demonic. Fear that you would do or say something that would open you up to demonic forces in your life. Fear against what the ruling forces of the region could do to you.

Fear of somehow losing your destiny – through either making bad choices in a church or mate or life in general or being in the wrong church or camp.

Fear of being out from under authority. Fear that you were not obeying your husband or father and then later on, fear that you were not submitting to the Apostle or Prophet of the church.

Fear of not tithing and/or not giving enough to ‘cover’ your own finances to where God would bless you.

Fear of not raising your kids just right so that they would make the very same choices that you would make for them.

Fear that the world would corrupt us or our kids by contact with it.

Fear that allowing a non Christian to teach our kids would result in God not being in their lives.

Fear that anything we or our kids did, might be a stumbling block to someone.

Fear that if we did not come across as spiritual – that we would be demoted or sidelined or shunned.

Fear of admitting your were broken and not healed yet.

Fear of missing ‘your opportunity’ for healing or deliverance or blessing from whatever service was being held that night or that weekend. (actually this was used to try to get people to EVERY meeting that the church had – even a business or planning meeting…..you could never tell when God would show up and you weren’t there) Fear of not being where God’s Spirit was being poured out.

Fear that someone might actually find out that you were just pretending in worship. Fear of not looking “worshipful.” Fear that there is something really wrong with you.

Fear of not being able to say that you disagreed. Fear that you were somehow evil because you had an opinion that differed.

I’m sure there is more….I am just sickened. I am over 50 and I have lived every moment of my life in Jesus, in fear. From the time I made my first steps toward this life of Faith I have carried a companion with me named Fear.

So today I resolve to dismiss my companion of Fear and replace him. I want a new traveling companion. I hate what Fear has done to my life.

Therefore, I will replace him with……Grace or Wisdom or maybe Laughter. What do you think? Who do you walk with?

Prophetic Words - The Shaking Continues

Bill Hamon (one the main men in the New Apostolic Reformation movement) just posted a new prophetic word on the Elijah List yesterday. You can read the whole prophecy here.

In the prophecy he gives dates of the start of the third (and final) apostolic reformation. He even uses Daniel and the weeks and years to explain how he ends up at the right year. The year of 2008 is when he believes history will look back and declare the beginning of the Apostolic Reformation Age. Of course he is urging you to come together with him at his conference in March to see how to best align yourselves for this coming move.

The purpose seems chilling to me as he says here: This Reformation will bring about a paradigm shift in the goal and purpose of the Church. Most Evangelical and Pentecostal theologians see no purpose for the Church other than to win more souls to Christ so they are made ready for Heaven. Now we are receiving revolutionary, reformed thinking from the heart and mind of God. The expanded goal and vision of the Third Reformation Church is to co-labor with Christ in His passionate desire for the fulfillment of Revelation 11:15:
"...there were loud voices in Heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!'"
......It is the time to give all of our life and labor to be co-workers together with Christ in demonstrating and enforcing His Kingdom in all the earth. We will not cease until we can join the voices in Heaven victoriously, declaring that the kingdoms of this world have become the Kingdoms of our Lord Jesus and His anointed one, the Church.

(is it just me or do the words, "enforcing His Kingdom," scare you a little?)

What I want to know is why does something like this still rattle me? I read it today and cannot shake an effect it had on me. I feel that in so many ways, I start at ground zero and begin to question everything I have been through and learned in the past 10 months. I hear voices of, “what if I’m wrong.” “How can so many men be prophesying a false message? What if I’m messing with God’s stuff?” And to my shame I even have to battle the voice that asks if I’m committing the unpardonable sin of ascribing to man or the enemy that which is of God.

I know better. I can go through this prophecy and pick out the parts that scripture at least leaves it completely open to interpretation where there is no final word from itself what it means. I know that not EVERYONE on the planet is thinking this way. I know that even good men can prophesy wrong. I know, I know, I know!!!!

Then why do I not know? What is wrong with me?

The Leaving

I was going to write a blog that would explain our leaving our CLB. I thought that I would go through in sequence and explain all that happened to us. Frankly, the thought of that leaves me ill. I really don’t want to rehash the past few months. So let me give you a little in a vague way. If you want to know more please leave a post with your email address and I will give much more detail. I know it helped me to read other’s blogs about the details of their leaving. It made me realize that what happened to me was what had happened to them. It made me realize that I could survive too. It gave me encouragement that I was not crazy.

We served in our church for almost 20 years. There were problems along the way. Once we almost left but we felt that God had directly called us here and he had not released us. We stepped out of eldership at that time. That was about 8 years ago. We stayed. This was not as hard for me as it was for my husband. He could see major problems and, other than trusting God to fix them, he felt helpless. Still we stayed and supported.

The Apostolic movement came into contact with our church leadership. Soon we had speakers coming in from this group. Most all of them were wonderful men with a wonderful message. But within the messages was this apostolic order. This ordered people in rank. One over another. Soon there were titles. These were never demanded – just expected. My husband could see that this was not the Fathers heart for his church.

I actually thought he was making a big deal about nothing. I went to scripture to prove him wrong. I couldn’t. I read the New Testament through 3 times that week. I researched in the Greek, every verse that dealt with leadership or headship. I was amazed at the lack of “being over” and the contunity of being under or alongside.

I then started reading everything I could get my hands on about this particular Apostolic movement. Most of the books were good. Some were absoulutely scary. The dismissal of scripture was alarming. One even hinted at the ability of these new apostles being able to come up with new doctrine as did the early apostles.

I then researched online to find anything. I started with The Battered Sheep website. I felt so guilty for even clicking onto such a site. It felt like religious porn. But the more I read, the more I could see parts – not all – of our church. Especially the one article about what they would say about you if you were to leave. It was like they had visited our church. So I read more.

When we met with our leaders for a final attempt to get them to see the error or this hierarchy I was totally alongside my husband. We were totally on the same page. God was gracious to us in that way. I have read of many husbands and wives who were split apart on these decisions.

The meeting did not go well. We were informed that we were not on the same leadership level as them. They would not discuss anything with us. They were totally closed to what we had to say. We left in peace but did not know what to do. We could not stay and help them anymore. We did not have a word from God that we could leave. We were stuck.

We spent the next month fasting, praying and getting counsel. God actually showed up in a worship time and told my husband that it was time to go. He felt God say, “Ok, you can go now.” We waited for counsel to confirm and received it.

“Going” did not go as planned. We wished to tell each of our friends face to face. We were going to meet with our pastors and then tell everyone else in that order. That, through the work of the enemy and the hasty decisions of our pastors, did not happen. Word got out that we were leaving, emails went out, calls went out not to speak to us, and a meeting was planned for the whole church a few hours after we were to meet with the pastoral staff.

We were told that we were in deep deception. That “bad things” would probably happen to us if we left. That we could not leave with their blessing and many other things. We stood our ground, tried to be gracious, tried not to deal with character issues.

That night the church gathered without us and it was decreed that we were in deception. That the church could come and talk to us but only if they dealt with our deception. Our friends were devastated. Because we had tried so hard not to spread division, because we had never spoken to anyone about our problems, because we were not given the opportunity to tell them individually, they were completely confused and angry. It was disseminated that we had lived a lie in front of them – that somehow we had been unfaithful to them.

Only a very few have come to talk to us. No one was told that they couldn’t come, it is just the culture of the church that when someone leaves they have “broken covenant” with you and therefore you should not put your self in danger by having a relationship with them.

Therefore, we have left. If you need more detail, please leave a comment. The rest of the blogs will deal with the day to day of walking out of our CLB.