Another Resource - The Heresy of Mind Control (and a dare!)

Sometimes it is just easier to hear the truth from a totally unbiased source. It can be very hard to listen to people's stories and not wonder if their memory is truly good, if they are exaggerating the truth in any way or if they might be outright lying. I understand this.

One of the most helpful things for me in this whole process was to read from those who were not talking about my particular group or even denomination. It was in looking at what they were saying and seeing the stark reality of how closely our group paralleled an abusive environment that I was able to understand that what we were doing was harmful.

I found another resource this week that again will cause you to re-evaluate all that we did and participated in while at this Church.

Stephen Martin, a counselor from Wellspring in Ohio (a group that helps people coming out of controlling groups and/or cults) has written a clear, concise book about how mind control works in a group.

He says in the introduction, "Suppose you move to a different area, and are keeping your eyes open for a good group to belong to (a social club, a church, a synagogue, or service organization). You visit one such group where the people are very friendly, loving, and give you individual attention. The group has a variety of programs: a rehabilitation program for drug addicts, services and nursing homes for the elderly, help for the poor, and free clinics. The leader inspires the disillusioned, the disenchanted, and those who have been rejected elsewhere. He is well-known and respected in the area, and the mayor gave him a position as Director of the City Housing Authority. Would you join this group?" - You just joined Jim Jone's group! He goes on to explain his book this way, "Are there any warning signs that a group and its leader are dangerous? That’s largely what this book is about. "

Now I'm NOT saying that this Church will start passing out the Kool-aid next Sunday. I am saying that if you will read this it will become clear to you why the abuse keeps happening and why story after story continues to churn out of this group of people's lives being destroyed and their faith shaken.

It is NOT WRONG to read and consider an opposing viewpoint. If you went to a dealership and wanted to buy a particular model of car and the salesman, after explaining all the wonderful features of the car urged you to NOT go and read Consumer Report's review on this car nor hear anyone's concerns on the web about this car, you would be the FIRST to go and look that up. Information, even from those who are in disagreement, is not "Poison" to read. If you cannot look at the opposing viewpoint and refute it within your own heart and mind then you truly are not "free" as you claim.

The free download of this book can be found here: http://recognizeheresy.com/default.aspx

For those leaders at this Church that read here I simply dare you to read this and have a discussion with me.

The Story of a Flock - A Parable

My story begins as we begin to see a small flock off in the distance. It is a small flock of sheep. As we get closer we can see that this flock is like most other flocks we have seen. Sheep, green pasture, a small fence for protection at night and a shepherd sitting by the small gate who carries a staff for protection and a harp to sing to his sheep. The scene is simple and pristine in its beauty.

As we move even closer we find that this flock is newly formed. The Great Shepherd had called out to various sheep and they had come together for protection, fellowship and feeding and to just be together with the Shepherd. As we start to move among them we notice that the Great Shepherd had been very specific in his calling because from a distance all the sheep looked the same but up close you began to see how each sheep differed in its personality and calling.

There were sheep that loved to study the Shepherd and explain to the other sheep all that was being learned. There were sheep that understood the shepherd’s harp – its purpose and design. They could play various instruments and sing and when they did the whole flock stood awed at the sound and would even join in to sing songs of the Shepherd with them. There were sheep that wanted to do nothing but mingle amongst the other sheep to look for those who had hurt themselves. These sheep understood the art of binding the wounds and healing the hurts. They could find pastures during the day to make sure the sheep were getting the needed nourishment and clear healing water. Other sheep did nothing but gaze out at the range and look for sheep who had never heard of a Shepherd. Once spotted, they would rush out to tell of the wonders of their Shepherd. And yes, there were a few sheep that could seemingly see the gifts given to each sheep and help to set the flock up to where all the sheep could function in their gifts and be used to the best of the flock. Even though these sheep had this gift they always remembered that they were also just sheep and that it was the Shepherd that truly was in charge of the flock.

The Shepherd saw that this was good. He would regularly mingle amongst the sheep and it was not long before you realized that this Shepherd had a relationship with each of the sheep. He would speak softly to each one. His words, when overheard, were words of encouragement, direction, explanation, and sometimes even correction but were always given with so much grace and peace that the whole flock trusted this Shepherd.

No, this flock was not perfect. Sometimes the sheep would fight. There were even bites given and received and the ones who carried the bandages and salve would be called upon to help to heal the hurts. Some of the sheep did not understand the gifts given to other sheep and felt that the work that they deemed most important was being overlooked. Sometimes the sheep that had the gift of organization would become a bit overbearing and sometimes forgot that ultimately it was up to the Shepherd to lead the sheep. But for all the messiness in the flock it was still a place of joy and peace.

I, as the author of this piece, am going to transport you to 15 years into the future and describe what happened to this flock.

As we draw close to the flock we see again that there are just sheep in the space where we left them but it does not take long to start to see significant differences. What you will now see will break your heart.

The first thing that catches your eye is the fence. What used to be a simple fence around a lush field of grass and a spring with a simple gate for coming and going is now a fence of a fortress around a dried patch of dirt and a tiny polluted spring in the corner. The fence is massive and it is evident that great time has been spent constructing it. There are watchtowers at each corner as if someone is expecting an imminent attack upon the flock. At the gate no longer sits the Shepherd but there are sheep placed there as guards in full battle gear.

As you draw closer you began to notice a difference in how the sheep are standing. There are rows and rows of sheep. They are not grazing contentedly as we last saw. There is no sign of the Shepherd walking among them like before. They eat in rows, they do their duties in rows and even though there seems to be smiles on each face there is no feeling of joy left in the flock.

It is then that one of the most alarming things becomes apparent. A few of the sheep no longer walk on all fours. There are about 10 of them that have somehow decided to walk upright on two feet. It is soon evident that these sheep are the ones in charge. Out of the 10 or so sheep that walk uprightly you see that a few of these sheep are wearing beautiful woolen clothing, carry a staff and wear a crown on their heads. All sheep stop when the crowned ones speak. The crowned ones give an order and the other upright sheep make sure that the common sheep understand the order and heed it. Then you understand the rows of sheep all facing the same direction. It is at the command of the crowned ones and the work of the other upright ones that the sheep are kept in this rigid order.

As you mingle among the common sheep you are startled at how shorn they are. Their wool has been shorn far too often to give them any protection from the weather and the elements. They seem to shiver at the slightest wind. Your heart breaks for them as you see the sheep line up for yet another shearing over in the corner of the pen. When you ask them why they are giving their wool away so often at their own expense they will tell you that in giving their wool away they will be blessed and not fall under a curse of the Great Shepherd. Their shivering they are glad to bear.

At this revelation you are simply shocked. Why would the Great Shepherd want your wool in such an extreme measure, you ask. Don’t they see that the wool they are giving are only going towards the reinforcement and building of the walls around their flock and to outfit the crowned and upright ones in wonderful, rich, woolen clothing? And who ever told them that the Great Shepherd would curse them? Don’t they remember how he walked among them in such a loving way? How he made sure that they were fed and warm and loved? Where was the Great Shepherd anyway? Had anyone seen him recently? Yes, they assure you. The crowned one meets with him every morning. He gets his orders from the Great Shepherd and then they all follow those orders. They grow tired of my questions and start accusing me of being a questioner and bringing division. Most start to ignore me.

I decide to go and speak to the upright ones and ask why the shearing is taking place and why the sheep are left cold and shivering in the elements. They are also shorn but carry with them blankets of thin wool that help to ward off the cold. When you inquire of them you are met with instant glares of anger and derision. They point to the head crowned one and tell you that he is the one that sets the pace for the shearing. This crowned one is not to be questioned as his tall stature allows him to hear the Great Shepherd far more easily than the common sheep. The days of the Great Shepherd speaking to each of the sheep individually is now been replaced with this crowned one hearing instead for the sheep. After all, they say, the Great Shepherd has set the flock in order in this day and age and this is how it is to be done.

Your attention is now turned to the crowned one. His clothes are the finest and his feet are shod in the finest sheepskin. His wool has been shorn too but not as short. Even if it were short the fine woolen clothing would keep him warm. There is an air of authority that surrounds him but also fear. As he walks among the sheep you see them cower before him. Some come and bow at his feet and give him gifts of their wool. Others offer to carry his staff hoping that they too will be called upon to be one of the upright ones. Some garner his smile while others seem to garner his anger. As you listen in to what is being said by the crowned one to the common sheep that day you are left in disbelief. This day he is walking among the sheep and telling them what will happen if they leave the walls he has built up around them. He warns them of certain disasters that will befall them should they leave his protection. “The Great Shepherd is only here in this pen,” he tells them. “If you leave you will leave the protection of the Great Shepherd. Your children will wander off cliffs, your wives will leave you for other sheep, your wool will never grow back and you will never hear the voice of the Great Shepherd again.”

As you sit there in anger, wondering what exactly you should do or say you see a small sheep come up from the ranks of those who are called upon to sing songs of the Shepherd. She speaks up and tells the crowned one that the things he is telling the sheep are simply not true. She knows the Great Shepherd and He has never said such things. Her voice trembles as she gently rebukes the crowned one. As she gathers even more courage she further confronts him on the schedule of shearing and points out that the sheep are cold and being left to shiver in the elements.

You would have thought that this little sheep had grabbed a club and had commenced beating the crowned head of the upright sheep with what happened next. Suddenly from out of nowhere the upright ones come and stand in between the crowned one and the newly exposed questioner. They begin to yell and scream at her for daring to question the crowned one. She begins to quake in fear of their attack on her. She is accused of pride, arrogance, disloyalty, and every other sin they can think of. No one – not one - ever answers the question she brought to the crowned one. But now all attention is turned on her and how very ugly and deficient she is in the flock.

When she does not back down but demands that her questions get answered she is dragged to the gates and thrown out. Along the way her skin is accidently pierced by the sword that one of the guards is carrying as he stands in front of the gate. Her head is banged against the planking as she is discarded outside. And her front leg is sprained as she lands on the unforgiving ground outside the gate.

Now left broken and bleeding she is sure that the other sheep inside will come out and help her. They do love her she tells herself. They will come. She begins to call to them. No one moves. Then at last with great excitement she senses some movement but her hopes are dashed she begins to see the sheep go back into the rows facing the crowned one. She overhears him explaining why she had to be cast out. She listens as he details her “sins.” Her heart breaks as he tells the other sheep that she really never loved her friends. She understands that no one will come to bind up her wounds and so she starts off alone down an unknown path.

She misses the walls that were told to offer her protection. She misses the warmth of belonging to a flock. She longs to sing her songs with others instead of alone. There is too much freedom in being out here by herself. What if she goes the wrong way and falls off a cliff, what if she encounters a snake in the lush grass, what if they say is true and the Good Shepherd never shows up? What is she supposed to do now?

Suddenly around the next corner she finds a cleft in the mountain with a miraculous bit of grass and a small spring and decides to stay at least till her wounds start to heal and she can again walk on her leg or the grass is gone and the spring dries up. Sure enough with just enough to get by she stays hidden here for a few months and begins to grow strong. The grass and spring miraculously never run out and her woolen coat grows thick and she is no longer cold. The nourishment of the grass and spring causes her to become healthy. She begins to venture out, facing her fears that she cannot travel the fields alone. She realizes that there is an inner voice that she had not heard in a long time that warns her of the cliffs or the snakes that lurk therein. She begins to venture further only to find streams of clear water and fields of luscious grass. Joy begins to return to her step and she finds herself singing new songs about the Great Shepherd to herself.

And then one day she sees a man in the distance. He carries a staff and walks on two feet. Instantly she is afraid and wants to run the other direction to safety but falters. She does not hear the inner voice warning her and there is a smell that reaches her nostrils that she remembers with delight. This is not an upright one or a crowned one. This is the GREAT SHEPHERD!

She takes a tentative step towards him and the love in his eyes almost makes her drop to her knees with relief. She knows this man. This man is good. As they meet, the Great Shepherd gently reaches for her and cradles her in his arms. For long moments she just lays there unaware of time and space.

As she finally rouses herself in his embrace she asks him why it took so long to come to her. He assures her that he had been with her all along. It was him that gave her the wisdom to see that things were not right in the pen. It was Him that gave her the courage to ask the hard questions. It was Him that was hurled out the gate with her. She remembered and began to understand that she was never alone.

Suddenly she looked up at Him and laughed, “It was YOU!” “You led me to the cleft in the rock! You gave me the bit of miraculous grass and the delicious clear spring! You prepared that place for me to heal and grow strong and have my wool grow back! You led me there didn’t you?”

Gently with a whisp of a smile that lit up not only his edges of his mouth but his eyes he said, “Well my valiant one, you almost have it right but I did not prepare the cleft in the rock, I wasthe cleft. I did not lead you to the grass and the spring; I was the grass and the spring. I did not prepare a place for you; I am that place for you.

The Great Shepherd then turned to her, set her on her own four legs and said, “Now I have a job I want you to help me with. Will you go back to the pen with me and stand outside the gate and continue to speak to your friends about the truth you now are sure of? Will you be there when they leave or are thrown out to bind up their wounds and tell them of my love for them? Will you explain that the crowned ones have misrepresented me and I am not a Shepherd like they pretend to be? Will you help lead those who are hurt to me so that their fleece can grow warm again and they can hear my voice clearly for themselves again?”

The sheep lifted her head and looked deep into the eyes of love and said a simple “Yes, I would love nothing better."

The story ends, at least for the time being, as you see them walk together down the road towards the old sheep pen. In the distance you hear the bleating of sheep who are wounded and bleeding without a Shepherd.

I Can't Believe I Once Believed This Stuff!!

I just received a letter from a "prayer warrior" of a leading man in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). It seems that Mr. and Mrs Wagner (I think he refers to himself as the "presiding apostle") have been experiencing some severe health issues. Doris has had knee surgery and it has become repeatedly infected and Peter has some heart issues. My heart truly goes out to these people. I know how scary these kinds of issues are - even to the point they are life threatening. I wish no harm to these folks.

BUT - O MY GOD. The letter that just went out yesterday getting people to pray is so much sadder than their physical conditions. They are essentially calling people to fast and pray for 40 days for the Wagners. No problem there. But the reason for the fasting and praying is this:

"(We) feel strongly that the warfare that is coming against Peter and Doris is a very high level of warfare. Especially, since Peter has been pulled into the public eye concerning the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). Consequently, there are pagan websites that are speaking about and against the Wagners and those associated with them and their stance on spiritual warfare. We are also all aware that we are in a season of "demonic high worship/holy days." (emphasis mine)

These people feel that the problems the Wagners are having are directly related to demons and people's curses. What an awful thing to believe. Essentially they are saying that your (our) God is not big enough to protect you (us). We now have to unpack our bag full of charms and trinkets to ward off the evil of these evil people. And just what is a "very high level" even supposed to mean? Can we just make this stuff up? I guess because of the "high position" that Mr. Wagner holds then it takes "high level of warfare" to come against him.

(Funny that I have not read that there may be sin in their lives because this is the accusation that many make against those outside of their group when we get sick or are in financial trouble. Did Peter and Doris repent of anything they could think of before they allowed hundreds of people to go without their breakfast for the 40 days? Or maybe they are out from under "covering!" That must be it because when we walked out of our last 'church' that is what was promised to us and we know that this "covering" is supposed to keep evil away - Right?)

This woman goes on to say :

It is obvious that we need to increase intercession for the Wagners during this crucial time. As the word of God clearly shares, "This kind will only come out by prayer and fasting."

So she takes a phrase out of the Bible (which I might add is disputed to be in the very original text itself) of Jesus casting out a demon that his followers were not having any luck with and applies it to this situation. Again, OMG!!

So they call as many people as can possible be rounded up (because we all know it is the numbers that will overcome this evil that has beset the Wagners) to pray against the demons that they have - or are being allowed to afflict them - or are in their general vicinity. At least the ones sent by those very evil pagans and their very evil pagan websites. See I told you we needed to rule and reign on those 7 mountains so our leaders can live a life of true health till they pass on into eternity through a non-sickness or non-accidental caused death.

Now I have been a bit tongue-in-cheek about this but truly I am aghast at what I used to live under, participate in and even teach. We have been called OUT OF FEAR based living. Where there is love there is no fear. Quit fearing the enemy that has been defeated and only has a hold on you if you believe his lies.

Pray for the Wagners - Yes. I believe in prayer. I believe in healing. But leave all the witchcraft to the "pagans" that you think are so evil. And while you are praying for the healing of Doris' knee and Peter's heart would you also pray that they and their followers quit living in fear and find the faith in the Father's care for them.

Jesus won didn't he? Can we act like it?

A Sweet Gig

The other day I received a letter in my email account. It was from someone who had visited my blog and had a question. A friend of his had hired a firm/ministry, (W.I.S.E. - Workplace. Intercessory. Support. Empowerment - found @prayformybusiness.com)(videos here) to provide intercessory prayer and prophecy for his company.

The website does not specify fees for this "service" but the one who wrote to me thought it to be in the $1,500 range for a month. I did not verify this.

Now, those of you who know me here would expect me to rant. Truthfully, it would feel good. But again, I'm not sure anything good comes from a rant. Those who agree with you will agree and those who support this kind of thing will simply tune out.

May I talk to those who are considering this kind of arrangement? Will you give me a few minutes of your time? May I please bring up some issues for you to think about?

I could debate with you many points where this kind of ministry has bought into the latest rhetoric of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). 7 Mountains Mandate, Apostolic Alliances, Prayer Mapping, Covering and the whole 90 yards are touched upon as you browse their site. I have covered many of these in this blog already so I won't do it here. You can follow Labels to read more or just write to me directly.

I ask you to at least consider ONE thought. HOW WILL YOU KNOW IT IS WORKING?

In their own words, they do not promise a rise financially for your company (good thing in the market we are now in!) They state that they don't promise you to necessarily prosper financially but it is insinuated that they will pray for that. (This way they can take credit for it if it does happen but do not have to take credit for anything if it does not)

They say that you should expect other things to get better though. Atmosphere around the office, relationships to be better, more surety about decisions that need to be made and such are promised. BUT - and here is the kicker - IF it does NOT go well for your business, they again make a way out for themselves by claiming that as they begin to pray the enemy may actually come against your business and "stir things up." Things may get worse - not better. This is brilliant actually because they can look at both possibilities to show you that their prayer and prophecy is WORKING - kinda - sorta...sigh...

You will never know if it is working. Any good thing will be because they prayed, any bad thing will be because they prayed. And they get paid to do this. This is the sweetest gig ever!!!


But here is the heartbreaking thing. This is what I wrote to the "friend."
The bad part is that when your business has its normal ups and downs, or your kid gets sick, or an employee cheats you or you loose your health, you will begin to wonder if God loves you. Here you are doing everything you can to prosper (soul as well as financial) and you are failing. God is not keeping up his part of the bargain -that, or you have done something wrong. (Not given enough, not prayed enough, not come under covering enough.) It will be your fault or someone else close to you. It suddenly becomes witchcraft. Your future depends on fulfilling what the gods are asking for. The end result is that you are now mad at God. He let you down. The one Father that truly loves you, who wants to walk through this life with you in both good and bad times, is now your enemy.

How do I know this? I walked through this path myself. I watched my business - then under the Apostles "Covering," - go through it's normal ups and downs. I bought into the "testimonies" of other business men, men who only told the good stuff. (One day I was talking to one of these "blessed" business owners. He admitted to me that it had been a hard year and was now being sued by a client. I was shocked! I had been led to believe that he was having the most amazing year ever.) I just felt that somehow I was doing something wrong. Then I was mad that God was not holding up his part. I tried harder and harder to do everything right.

When I finally walked out I realized that I had been put into a prison of my own imagination. God was not like this. I did not have to do all the stuff to keep my business safe or prospering. He did not promise me a business where nothing went wrong. He promised to be my God in the midst of my business - nothing more. And you know what? It is more than enough. It is wonderful.


And one final thing.....doesn't it make you wonder that if Jesus were to clean the "Temple" of today, he might just smash a few computers for hawking their wares/services online?

Picture from here

Covering and Authority - New Site

I'm just finding lots of new sites to link to this week. Here is another one I just found.

It is called Covering and Authority and is the best site I have found yet that discusses the harmful practice/theology of being under 'Covering' or Authority.

For those of you who are not familiar, covering is a doctrine taught that says you have to be under a spiritual covering (of a church or leader) to be kept out of harm of the devil and bad things happening in your life. It espouses that all Christians need to be under authority to have anything good happen in their life or ministry.

I have written about the effects of it in my life throughout this blog. You can read some of them
here, here, here, and here if you are interested in the personal side to this doctrine.

Anyway, check the site out and link it where it is appropriate.

Someone To Read

I think I know my readership enough to know that you all will appreciate this guy's writings. His name is Steve Hill. (no another Steve Hill - not the one from Florida) He writes about leadership, apostles, tithing, humility and such. Go to his page and click around.

Start with his Prophetic Word for 2009. He nails it I think.

For another sample try this from his article, Apostles, Authority and the Kingdom of God:

“And he gave some to be apostles...”

When Jesus is the King of His Kingdom, we need a New Testament understanding of “apostle”. The picture of spiritual CEO at the top of the religious food chain is simply wrong. We know the word means “sent one” but may not realize that Paul’s use of the term is in the Greco/Roman business context regarding slaves. There was a fixed hierarchy among slaves from business directors down to those who did manual chores. The most expendable slave and thus, least honored, was the “sent one”. Why? Travel was often dangerous so those sent on errands near or far were those whose loss would be missed the least. They were the most expendable with the least status. Putting “apostle” on your business card then would be like putting “dishwasher” on your card now. \1

or on knowing your place as the leader from his article Better For You:

Jesus, the best, wisest, most anointed leader who ever walked on the face of the earth was leaving the men he had discipled for three years. Earlier He had called them "friends" and destroyed the possibility of any hierarchical system truly representing His kingdom but now he takes it all one step further! He is leaving the scene!
It is better that they know His indwelling presence by the Holy Spirit than for them to have His physical presence! It is better that His friends walk as He walked by inward revelation of the Father and His voice than by outward command! Jesus was so confident of the ability of the Holy Spirit to lead into all truth, to reveal His person and to reveal His Father that He was willing to leave. He was willing to trust His friends to the Holy Spirit! And we think we are needed? (emphasis mine!)

or in Discernment you can read about his take on John 3:15-17. Here he In I John 3:15- 17, here he talks about three agendas that capture our hearts and blind us.

Regarding giving so that your wealth will increase he says this in his article Most of what is taught about money is wrong,

Proverbs 22:16 is a very interesting verse, "He who oppresses the poor to increase his riches and he who gives to the rich will surely come to poverty." Why do we give to the rich? We hope for something in return! That is the same spirit as stealing from the poor! Jesus condemned our propensity to do things in hope of return and commanded us to serve those who cannot pay us back and to place treasure in heaven (Luke 14:12- 14).

Good stuff from someone who is doing the stuff - not just talking about it.

The Scent of a Profit

For your early Christmas shopping I want to alert you to the wonders in the catalogue of the NAR. (New Apostolic Reformation) Fresh from the latest Letter to his Intercessors, Chuck Pierce has these for your purchase at the bottom of the page.

The text beside the pictures ARE NOT MADE UP!!!






"The Joy of Covenant" Candle & Anointing Oil


With God forming a new covenant we have made this new anointing oil. Filled with the fragrance of roses and lilies, this oil can be used as you pray for restored covenant or form new covenant. Then we also have a beautiful candle for $12 that goes with this oil. Or you can purchase BOTH for $20.


My Note: I was thinking of what scent would represent those of us accused of 'breaking covenant." Any thoughts out there?

And for those of you who actually believe that covenant was nailed down at the cross, maybe the Joy of Covenant candle and roll on oil is not your cup of tea. But wait....we have more:

Harvest Anointing Oil and Candle (Set)

The Harvest Candle and Anointing Oil represent the mindset that God is developing at this time in His people. We must move into a mindset of multiplication and harvest. Anoint your home, business, church, and friends with this anointing. Trim your wick and get ready for a visitation and increase!


I giggled every time I read that we are to anoint your home, business, church and friends with the Harvest oil. I can just imagine the drive by anointings that will happen to friends. Way too funny.

Do you have any oils or candles that you would like to add to the list? Like the roll on Control Oil...You smell it and never question again. Or the Chair O Authority Candle....the scent hits you like a brick. Or the Shunning Oil....you can roll it on or just spit it at people.

Seriously though, "Trim your wick and get ready for a visitation and increase?" You have got to be kidding me. We have actually begun to sell God here folks. Or what is this about "God forming a new covenant." I thought the old one was the last one. What new covenant are they talking about.

PEOPLE!!......Please stop this. You may be able to make a case that you are hearing God, although the "word" in the letter seems to me to be the same rehash of worn out phrases and empty, vague promises. But this. This is witchcraft...pure and simple. With a scent that cannot be pleasing to the Father.

Where Dominionist Theology Gets Off Track

I caught a bit of a sermon on You Tube this morning that caused me to pause and go, “Ahhhhhh, that's the problem!”

The 10 minute clip is from October 16, 2005 at Wasilla Assembly of God Church, where Sarah Palin is being prayed for on by a man with the last name of Muthee. He gives a quick explanation of a dominionist theology agenda and then prays for her. (Wow, this took me back to my CLB)

(Now, I don’t believe all the reports of Sarah Palin being the secret operative for the New Apostolic Reformation or any other garbage. I think she is a woman who may attend these churches and may even ascribe to their theology but it stops there. Read what Grace says here.)

What was so interesting to me was this: The man describing dominionism theology did not think that salvation alone was enough for the world! Look at what he says:

When we talk about transformation of a community we are talking about God invading 7 areas of our society…… It is where we see God’s kingdom infiltrate and influence 7 areas in our society. Number one is the spiritual aspect of our society. Namely, the church for a long time has just concentrated on that dimension.. We want people saved, we want them to go to heaven, we want them delivered and that is it. But I tell you something if all we do is to come to the church, get people saved and then they go…I don’t think much will happen in our society. So the second area whereby God wants to penetrate in our society is in the economic area……" (emphasis mine)

He then begins to talk of how he believes the Kingdom of God will come to earth. He briefly covers economic (The wealth of the gentiles are store up for the righteous, we need bankers, yada, yada, yada…), politics, (did you know that the people that split churches have the gift of politics?), education, (“if we had them {christian educators} the 10 commandments would not have been kicked out of the schools.” - as a side note….can I ask a question here? Why do Christians even want the LAW returned to the schools? Don‘t we believe in Grace now?) media, the arts and government.

I finally understood why this was and is so important to these Churches and their congregations. I finally found someone willing to admit that they don’t think the gospel - the simple gospel - will work. They are tired of doing it the hard way. They don’t see immediate fruit of nations being changed. They don’t believe the gospel is enough. One life radically changed for God is not enough. They need to add to the gospel all this other stuff so they can see it happen, now - today. After all if we wait for each person to get saved then it will take forever to see change take place in a nation.

Oh my God! This makes so much sense to me.

Instead of adding to our faith goodness, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness and love - instead of that being enough - we are to add kingdom strategies of wealth building, spiritual warfare, binding and loosing, breaking open hidden gates of the kingdom, education reform, apostolic alignment and whatever else they devise will help God out in his bid for this world.

Their God is weak! He needs us!

Ok, I can hear Husband now…..”Temper it a bit, Barb” (not that he ever actually says that to me, I just hear him thinking it)

We do need politicians that are Christians and I love it when my kid has a Christian teacher in his room. I love the fact that my elected officials may be able to call on God for help in a decision and God knows, I wish for some Christian godliness in Wall Street. The difference though, I think, is this. I want people to know my God, be saved from a life of self, be delivered from the enemy’s grip and walk in freedom and Grace. Then, AS THEY GO - I want them to change the world around them. The plan is for their salvation. The result is the change in their world.

I think that men and women who ascribe to the theology of the man in the video have got their priorities backwards. Their plan is the change of society and as a result people will be saved.

Two very different approaches. Two very different outcomes if you ask me.

Unfortunately, I think if they have their way we will be back to legislated religion. And then the witch trials, the dunkings and the burning at the stakes will begin.

Supernatural Words - I'm Sorry, I Was Wrong, Please Forgive Me

Over the past few days my blog has received over 900 page loads. My blog got picked up by a blog and a forum. Someone who was interested in exposing the New Apostolic Reformation landed on my site and started looking around.

I would have expected the pages that they would link to would be the ones where I was ranting about the NAR or calling for Honesty. But no….the page that was linked to and most hit was one of my first posts (The Person Formerly Known As Your Leader) where I publicly repented for my part in the leadership of our group. I wrote it as a response to the posts that were being written as the People Formerly Known as…… (You can see all that were written at the time at Bill Kinnon’s link on his left sidebar.)


As I looked at all the people who were reading my repentance and some of their comments I realized anew that the one thing the world longs for in relationship is someone who will say, “I’m sorry, I was wrong.” Whether it is a husband and wife relationship, a parent to their children or a child to his parent, a governmental official to his constituents or a church leader to his congregation, we long to hear those words.


In the case of a governmental (or parental) role you might think that admitting your “wrongness” would give the impression that you could not be trusted to lead. This is totally opposite of the truth. Admitting you are wrong may at first bring on the, “I told you so’s” but given time, people will realize that you can be trusted more than those who rationalize and explain away their behavior.


The world longs for, “I’m sorry, I was wrong, Please forgive me.” These words bring out humility and put everyone on the same playing field. They cause you to get under someone that you have offended and then lift them up. They heal, they save and they restore relationship.


Those words have done more to repair relationships of Husband and I to our children than all the “parenting” that we have ever done. They have restored relationships of people who had left our church before we did - those whom we shunned and believed lies about.

In the realm of relationships these words are truly miraculous. They are magic. No.....they are supernatural.


Today, if you truly wish to walk in the supernatural, say them to someone. Then stand back and watch a miracle.


Let GodTV air that one.

A Call For Honesty

Those who read here are probably familiar with the fact that we left a church that was closely aligned with C. Peter Wagner and the Apostolic group that he leads.

As the events have unfolded this week concerning Todd Bentley and the Apostolic group that commissioned him, I have followed along with a mixture of grief and outrage. Surprisingly, my outrage is not directed at Todd. I believe he is just one who was caught up in exactly what this stream teaches. He is the fruit of the movement. His pleas for money, his pride, his hype, his ability to stretch the truth and his lack of concern to back his claims up with proof is nothing more than his ability to be a good disciple of those who were around him.

The outrage came at the treatment that he got at the hands of the supposed "Father" of the Apostles. At the mention of his divorce Mr. Wagner and his wife issued statements to protect themselves and their movement.

And there starts the spin. Instead of humbling themselves and admitting that they were too hasty in commissioning this man they start to distance themselves, throw flack to keep you off balanced and re-writing history of what actually happened.

As you read the responses or hear them in your churches today, would you please review the following videos of the commissioning of Todd Bentley and what was actually said? Check what was said on that night with what is being said now. See it for yourselves and use it to see if what is said now accurately depicts what happened and was said on that night.

For instance, C. Peter Wagner does issue an apostolic blessing. It is there and holds nothing back. He clearly states that Todd is to be the leader of this revival.

Che Ahn says that he is being called as an Ephesians 4 evangelist "knowing that you have walked in a manner worthy of the Lord, pleasing Jesus in every way, bearing fruit in every good work, and growing in the intimacy and knowledge of God. We as your brothers and friends, having a deep love for you and Shonnah" are here to commission you, ect, ect.

John Arnot says, "We bless you today Todd Bentley, you are a friend, a man of God, a man of prayer, a man of the spirit....we stand with you, we encourage you, we honor you."

Bill Johnson in reference to how Todd welcomes the glory says, "I long to learn from you."

Simply listening to what these men said absolutely confirms the impression that they were wholeheartedly giving Todd the keys to the car and trusting him to the whole revival. Nowhere was there any doubt expressed in these men's words that there was a question in their hearts about Todd, his character or his ministry. Surely, if they had questions, some of that would come through. I have heard people prophesy and bless someone while still being cautious of what they are not sure of.

So, while my heart breaks for the whole thing, I encourage you to watch the videos and remind yourself of the truth. Hopefully, these men will own up and apologize to the world of their hasty recommendations of all that was Todd and Lakeland. I am hopeful, but all the while I am so familiar with the re-writing of history that these men and women do. I am so familiar with the "spin" that usually accompanies these kinds of things that I could write the script for it myself.

This is what they have already said or will eventually say.

1) We knew of the problems (otherwise where would be their discernment?)
2) That they were not really putting their full endorsement on Todd
3) That it is a good thing for the body of Christ that they were brought in when they were. That only God knew this was brewing and he wanted to have His men in place to take care of the situation
4) And this is the biggest one: That it was actually their commissioning that allowed the truth of the facts of Todd's life to come out. They will use this to put fear into people that the Apostolic anointing is not to be take lightly and "All will be revealed when alignment is brought into the Kingdom of God." It is their great giftings that are to be revered. They are the heros. They are the leaders.

In my opinion, this will not hurt this new Apostolic movement. It will only strengthen it because the followers of this movement have already been prepped for how to follow the re-writing of history and the spin that they have to believe to belong.

The videos are here. If you are in any position in this whole movement, please hold these men and women to the truth of what was said that night and not what they want you to believe now.

Straw Man Arguments

In my wandering around the ‘net this week and reading about what people are saying about the meetings going on in Lakeland, Florida I have been again pulled through so many emotions as thoughts go whirling around in my head. At times I am ready to just give grace to all involved with a totally open hand and heart. At other times I’m ready to take out another add in the local newspaper and decry, “What the Hell are you all thinking!!”

Again my schizophrenia rears its ugly head.

But then I found an article the other day that made me realize at least to some extent why I am so affected by this whole subject.

The article can be found at here. It is entitled: The Holy Ghost Straw Men: Full Gospel Excuses For Error

While I don’t agree with the author in some of his arguments I do agree with his main point. There are seven main statements that we, in the Charismatic circles, have been taught over and over again to hide bad theology, bad practices and sometimes bad behavior and character. These “Straw Men Arguments” as the author calls them are the arguments that keep us quiet and in our seats and not questioning or thinking for ourselves.

Here are the arguments with just a bit of my own explanation of how they were used in the Charasmatic circles I was familiar with:

1) “We need a fresh word for today” Meaning the Bible was an old word and the fresh and new revealed word of today was really important. When it was brought up that it contradicted the Bible, the re-interpretation of the Bible began with criminal hermeneutics. The “fresh word” was what was important and those speaking it were not to be questioned.

2) “We are not bound by tradition” Religion was dead. Haughtiness reigned as the words were spoken and intoned that WE – those who have a clue – were not bound by yesterday’s traditions. Never mind that our own traditions were just as binding as any that we had left. If you questioned their practices or theology you were told that you were bound up in the old ways and not open to what God was doing now.

3) “God offends the mind to reveal the heart” While I believe that this is actually a true statement, those that wanted to used this against the sheep did so with a relish. ANY practice or any bad behavior on the part of the leaders could be excused because it was good to have our minds offended by the Holy Spirit. If the pastor yelled at you and lost his temper he could state that it was good for you and built character. If absolutely CRAZY things started happening and someone was taken aback or offended, this straw man was pulled out and oftentimes the reasoned explanations were glossed over with just a few words like these. It ultimately made you feel like God routinely needed to offend you because your heart was so blind and bad.

4) “Touch not the Anointed: Do his prophets no harm” I have already dealt with this in a few of my posts. It is the biggest straw man of the hierarchical type churches. We were told that even if the leaders were wrong, we would be saved from bad things happening to us because we were submitted.

5) “Judge not lest you be judged” While the myriad of verses that teach us to judge in and of our own right were forgotten, this one was given especially if we were questioning leadership. It is funny, they could judge us, proclaim our children to have a sexual spirit, tell us that we were full of pride, tell us our cars were dirty and needed to be washed, or hold us accountable for being rebellious but we did not have that privilege to do the same except over our own lives or those that they had put under us. Judgment always extended down in the pyramid – never up.

6) “Doctrine is just someone’s opinion” This one was used often especially if you had any formal training in the study of the Bible. Husband had his Masters of Divinity from Southwestern Seminary and our pastor did not have any formal training whatsoever. Maybe men like this are afraid but we were told early on that doctrine separates men where love and covenant keep them together. At first we saw the wisdom of that statement – who does not know of good friends splitting over minor doctrinal differences, but what we did not know is that doctrine was also not understood or honored in any way. This led to various teachings coming and going with no thought to what it would mean in the long run. No one had any basis for their faith except what they believed the Bible was saying to them. It gave the churches no foundation. They oftentimes had a formal doctrinal statement but had no idea what it meant or how to keep any order to the “new word” that was being spoken. We were also told how seminaries were now of no use and how the conferences of today were going to replace the training of the “army of God.” Many, many of these men had no formal training.

7) “God is doing a new thing” Again, this one was used over and over again. I got tired of God’s supposed “new thing” in our own group. It seemed most times that the new thing was just the abandonment of something else that wasn’t working. The new thing could be the new leadership raised up (because of the old leadership was leaving – again), a new pet project of the leaders or the fact that we now had to all dress up to come to church so that we gave respect to the Apostle who was visiting. And don’t forget the “new things” that were just around the corner. If I had a dollar for the New Years Eve prophecies of the year of the “New Thing” I would at least be $19.00 richer. It never came – but we waited in expectation for finances to be blessed, abundance to spring forth and our church to grow to thousands.

It hit me last night that as Husband and I read through the entire article that these seven phrases, taught over and over again to us, (some) were not all bad in and of themselves. Some of them even had truth attached to them. But added together and spoken hundreds and hundreds of times they became the cords that bound us to silence. These ‘straw men arguments” on their own in the hands of a man or woman of integrity and humility would not hurt many. But put these arguments into the hands of someone who is out to build their own kingdom and you might as well just leave now before you are wearing imprints of tire treads on your backside.

Listen carefully the next time you hear any one of these preached or spoken. Ask what is really going on. Ask, investigate, judge and pray. Don’t be bound by these straw men any longer.

Ht to David Hayward at Nakedpastor for the comics. I bought him a beer!