I Can't Believe I Once Believed This Stuff!!

I just received a letter from a "prayer warrior" of a leading man in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). It seems that Mr. and Mrs Wagner (I think he refers to himself as the "presiding apostle") have been experiencing some severe health issues. Doris has had knee surgery and it has become repeatedly infected and Peter has some heart issues. My heart truly goes out to these people. I know how scary these kinds of issues are - even to the point they are life threatening. I wish no harm to these folks.

BUT - O MY GOD. The letter that just went out yesterday getting people to pray is so much sadder than their physical conditions. They are essentially calling people to fast and pray for 40 days for the Wagners. No problem there. But the reason for the fasting and praying is this:

"(We) feel strongly that the warfare that is coming against Peter and Doris is a very high level of warfare. Especially, since Peter has been pulled into the public eye concerning the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). Consequently, there are pagan websites that are speaking about and against the Wagners and those associated with them and their stance on spiritual warfare. We are also all aware that we are in a season of "demonic high worship/holy days." (emphasis mine)

These people feel that the problems the Wagners are having are directly related to demons and people's curses. What an awful thing to believe. Essentially they are saying that your (our) God is not big enough to protect you (us). We now have to unpack our bag full of charms and trinkets to ward off the evil of these evil people. And just what is a "very high level" even supposed to mean? Can we just make this stuff up? I guess because of the "high position" that Mr. Wagner holds then it takes "high level of warfare" to come against him.

(Funny that I have not read that there may be sin in their lives because this is the accusation that many make against those outside of their group when we get sick or are in financial trouble. Did Peter and Doris repent of anything they could think of before they allowed hundreds of people to go without their breakfast for the 40 days? Or maybe they are out from under "covering!" That must be it because when we walked out of our last 'church' that is what was promised to us and we know that this "covering" is supposed to keep evil away - Right?)

This woman goes on to say :

It is obvious that we need to increase intercession for the Wagners during this crucial time. As the word of God clearly shares, "This kind will only come out by prayer and fasting."

So she takes a phrase out of the Bible (which I might add is disputed to be in the very original text itself) of Jesus casting out a demon that his followers were not having any luck with and applies it to this situation. Again, OMG!!

So they call as many people as can possible be rounded up (because we all know it is the numbers that will overcome this evil that has beset the Wagners) to pray against the demons that they have - or are being allowed to afflict them - or are in their general vicinity. At least the ones sent by those very evil pagans and their very evil pagan websites. See I told you we needed to rule and reign on those 7 mountains so our leaders can live a life of true health till they pass on into eternity through a non-sickness or non-accidental caused death.

Now I have been a bit tongue-in-cheek about this but truly I am aghast at what I used to live under, participate in and even teach. We have been called OUT OF FEAR based living. Where there is love there is no fear. Quit fearing the enemy that has been defeated and only has a hold on you if you believe his lies.

Pray for the Wagners - Yes. I believe in prayer. I believe in healing. But leave all the witchcraft to the "pagans" that you think are so evil. And while you are praying for the healing of Doris' knee and Peter's heart would you also pray that they and their followers quit living in fear and find the faith in the Father's care for them.

Jesus won didn't he? Can we act like it?

Losing Your Destiny

The biggest scare tactic that this church will throw at you if you even think of leaving their ranks is that of "losing your destiny." (A quick look at the latest sermon topics will reveal their last one preached in September.

Let's talk about that for a minute.

People who believe that it is possible to lose their destiny tend to agree to a few things. 1) That you were created by God for a purpose in this life. 2) That God has a "primary" plan for your life for which you were created, and 3) it is possible to either throw this plan away or somehow miss it and therefore lose the destiny that God created for you. (Note - I no longer believe this way because it stems from the Old Testament law and stories and ignores the cross - but that is another post)

Now, it sounds very scary to any believer who values loving God to think that they will get to heaven and find out that the very thing that God created them for has been lost, stolen or thrown away. It carries great significance with it. It carries the idea that God will (at least) be mad at you, and for some even hints that you may even lose your salvation.

My biggest question when I left this 'church' was this very question. Will I, or am I, walking away from or losing my destiny.

Well yes. I did. But wait. If, by losing my destiny you are referring to being able to do anything further with this group - then, I certainly lost my "destiny" there at that establishment. No longer would my destiny be to champion their ideals, pay for their ideals or give free labor to support their ideals. And in that sense, and only that sense, did I lose my "destiny" with those who are still there.

BUT if you are referring to my destiny in Jesus - my destiny that has been planned for me from the beginning of time - then NO! I have not!

I was destined to be loved by God. I was destined to love my husband, my children and my family. I was destined to love those who I am in contact day to day. I was destined to do the works of salvation. But even saying that, my destiny is tied up - not in my ability to walk perfectly - but in the very nature of who God is. He holds my destiny - Not some church or some apostle, pastor or prophet or some group of friends - God. And only He gets to decide if I have lost it! No man - Apostle or not- can declare that you have lost it. When a man holds that power and uses it to threaten you, it is Spiritual Abuse in its rawest form.

Let me assure you that mine and all others who have walked away because we finally could no longer stomach the abuse of either ourselves or other people have our destinies fully intact and flourishing. You won't lose yours either.

You might just understand for the first time what it really is though and that is simply too wonderful to "miss."

Family First

Overheard in all of my churches growing up and even in my last church we were always saying, "God first, family second and Church third.

The one that I have learned much about this past 3 years is about putting family first. Because we are out of a church setting and away from any formal "ministry," it has put us smack dab into the middle of our family. It is hard to put anything in front of them because there is nothing else to replace them with. It's just US here on this island for the while. Of course we have people in, one family that has always been family to us and another couple that has become just like family but in contrast to the crowds of people we were used to having in and being responsible for it has really become just our family.

What I learned is that I had never put my family first. I thought I had. I would have been mad at you if you suggested that I had put Church in front of my family but this is just what I had done.

It was hard to see back then. Sundays were always more important than family. We never missed one except for being out of town and even then we tried to plan around what was happening. If someone in the church needed something I felt totally guilty and unwilling to say "No," to the request. If we had people over to the house for an event, my kids worked like servants to pull it off. They never got a vote whether to do it or not. That is just what the "Peters Family" did. We worked hard at getting it ready and I often waived off any help cleaning it up by saying, "No, the girls will help me get it....you just run along." We were busy most of Sunday's and I always found church things to be involved with during the week. If there was a crisis with one of the kids, it would have to wait till after the church stuff we were involved in. Family first? Hardly.

My daughter just related a story the other day where she remembered a birthday of hers that happened to fall on a Sunday where we had a lot of people over. She had told some of them it was her birthday and I had urged her not to make a big deal of it in front of our guests. I did not remember this day so I'm not sure what I was thinking but we were so taught to put our needs last that I'm sure that is what I was "teaching" her. Yuck!

Plus, we were giving so much, financially, to the church that we really did not have much extra to spend on just "us." When I think of all the 100's of thousands of dollars giving in the offering plate and the building funds I am sick. My family should have had that money for college, needed cars, and time together. Family first? Hardly

See, I think that somewhere in my thinking putting God-first became putting the Church first. I showed my devotion to God by showing my devotion to the Church. Some of this was my fault for getting my identification from my role in the organization. But some of this was directly taught. Not so much directly from the pulpit but much of it by what was said behind someone's back that was not as "involved" as we were.

So I find myself here today, on a month-long vacation with my family. We have the finances, the time and the desire to do this and looking back at the time where I thought we were putting "Family-first," I just shake my head and wonder what universe I was in.

It breaks my heart now that I have tasted the richness of spending time with my kids and husband. I love them and would drop anything to be with them. We have grown to relate and listen to each other. It was intense at first. We had to work at it because we had grown up mostly being busy and avoiding the conflicts. But it is so worth it. I love my family. I want to protect my time with them. This is truly God-first, Family-second and Church....Well, Church as it happens around us.

Pursuit of The Sinless Life

I have been a Christian for at least 48 years of my life. Just this week though I realized something about myself that I had packed along on this new journey of Grace. Something that I had assumed all along and had just come along with me into what I thought was a new mindset. In actuality, I had just carried over the old mindset and applied it to the new.

The thing I realized was that at least from the time I entered Bible School at 19 till today I have looked at salvation as a means so that I might not sin. Of course I always knew I would never be sinless. But at least my idea of this Christian life was that as I "grew in the Lord" I would sin less and less.

I just got rid of a lot of books from my book shelf the other day. As I stood back and surveyed them I realized how very many books I had hoped would free my from my sinful self. There were books on how to make my marriage better, books on deliverance, books on taming the tongue, books on becoming more godly, books to help me understand the Bible more - because we all know if we know our Bible, we will not sin as much. (My God, just do an amazon search on Joyce Meyers. People have made their fortunes on sin management books.)

Then as I was listening to a podcast that Darin Hufford did the other day, (Super Spiritual Expectations) he blew me away with one statement. He said, "There are a lot of people who are wondering if they embrace this Grace message, that maybe, then, they will experience the freedom from sin that never came in their old religious life." He went on to say that the message of Grace is about a relationship - not about becoming sinless.

I realized that I had thought to myself, "Maybe if I understand Grace, understand the Father's heart for me and understand how to actually have a relationship with Him, maybe I will get a handle finally on my _____________." (fill in the sin of the moment) I was simply replacing the books on my shelf with the message of Grace in hopes that it would do for me what they left untouched.

But that is not what Grace is for. Grace was given, "in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Grace was given in spite of our sin. Grace was given because we could not do it. It was not given so that we then would be victorious, it was given because we will never be victorious. He loves me IN MY SIN.

There is a fine line somewhere here that I don't want to cross. I'm really not sure where it is though. I feel like Paul who says, "so will we sin more just because of Grace - Heavens NO." I'm not advocating giving up and just diving into my sin, knowing that Grace has covered it. But it is a mind shift of monumental proportions for me.

The message of Grace is not for me to obtain so that I can finally get my act together. It is offered to me because I can't. It truly "is finished," and there is nothing I can add to this. And so today I find myself overwhelmed by the act of Love that brought this into my life.

(*by the way, I have never read the book shown above. Just thought it was a great picture for what I was talking about. It might be a wonderful book :)

Read This!

With my inability to form a coherent written thought these days and with my blog going more than a month with nothing on it, I would like to direct you to the post that Jeff McQ wrote today over at his blog, Losing My Religion. The post is God is in the Darkness (Part 1 - Afraid of the Dark)

He writes on how his life used to be filled with battling the demonic realm and why it has faded much farther into the background of his spiritual life in recent years.

I have had this conversation with many people lately who ask me why I don't keep my guard up against the enemy (devil) like I used to, how I can have my older children bring ______ into our home, (whatever the person is deciding is bad for us at that moment) or why we would let them be here and not be actively worshiping the same God. Jeff just says, almost to the word, exactly what I have tried to explain to them.

Post-Charismatic Evangelism

UPDATE: Here are those writing and linking to the questions raised in this blog:
Sarah @ Coffee Randoms: Thoughts on Evangelism
Jeff McQ @ Losing my Religion: Re-thinking Evangelism (and lots of other stuff) and Over-marketing the Watered-Down Version and How I Got Saved...
Ruth from Grains of Truth: Knocking on Heaven's Door
Co_Heir @ On the Journey: Evangelism
Also see Internet Monk's post on John Macarthur on TBN - watch the video and let me know what you think.
Andrew @ Hackman's Musings writes this: Evangelism



I think one of the hardest subjects for me to approach since having so much of what I formerly believed stripped away, is the subject of Evangelism.

I was raised a hard-core Fundamentalist. In every sermon (Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night) you would have the "plan of salvation" shared in case someone unknowingly wandered from off the street, came into your church and died that night and went to hell because someone did not share the "plan of salvation" with them. I even vaguely remember someone being fired over the fact that they did not share the "plan of salvation" often enough in their sermons. This salvation message was one of the fact of Hell, the plan for avoiding Hell, and the subsequent "sinners prayer" that would keep you out of Hell. Anything else in Christianity was just not really talked about.

Enter my years early in marriage - saved from Fundamentalism - and we understood salvation to be a way to a better, joyful, peaceful life. We would ask people if they wanted what we had. It was a bit of salvation from hell mixed in with a wonderful, meaningful life for the here and now.

Then finally in my Charismatic years I finally thought I had hit upon the greatest plan of salvation EVER!! Here in Charismatic land you could have all the "perks, bells and whistles." You could have your sins forgiven, be healed, prosper, do signs and wonders, be a leader and live a joyful, exciting purpose-filled life - all while signed up to be a part of the end time army that would ACTUALLY usher in the return of Jesus!!! We pitched the Christian life like those salesmen on late night TV. Your life would be amazing if you signed on the bottom line to become Jesus' disciple.

Darin Hufford puts it so well in his post, Gratefully Disillusioned, where he says

"I believe that Christianity has been marketed to the carnal nature of unbelievers. We successfully got people who would not have otherwise become a Christian to sign on the dotted line and join our religion. We did it by presenting "relationship with God" in a way that would appeal to power-hungry money mongers who want to escape the cold reality of life. We told people that God would financially prosper them. We told them that they would never get sick and if they did, God would make it go away. We've promised them that if anyone hurt them, their God would stick up for them and get revenge on their behalf. We convinced them that God would also give them godlike powers and they could dazzle their friends and family with magic tricks. We promised them that God would make sure they held a position of leadership in life where everyone would respect them and pay them honor. I've even seen different ministries claim that Christians have better sex than non-Christians. The list goes on and on. One by one, people signed up for Christianity. People who would not have otherwise given it a second look, found themselves strangely tempted with a religion that promised to fulfill their every carnal desire. The offer was just too good to be true."

(Read this excellent article as he goes on to say that we may not even have true Christians if this is what they signed up for.)

So here is my dilemma. If I am against using the "Hell card"as my "hook" in sharing my faith and I refuse to bend to the "hook" of the Jesus of the late night infomercials full of promises that never live up to their expectations, what am I left with? What exactly is my faith? How do I explain it to people? What is Evangelism? What did Jesus do with the disciples? What was this Kingdom of God that they shared about? What is the gospel - the "good news" to you and how would you share it with an unbeliever?

Another set of questions that interest me are these: Why did you become a Christian? What is your story? Did you sign up for the perks and if so, how is that going for you? Were you truly "drawn to God" in some way where the "perks" that I am talking about really did not matter?

If you have any thoughts about Evangelism (past or present)- please leave them in the comment section - or better yet - post your thoughts and link to it here. I'll update this post with links at the top if anyone wants to be added to the conversation.

Hope Deferred - A Heart Flat Lined

When I began this blog in June of 2007, I began to write primarily for one purpose - that was to help anyone else out there who has left behind a group similar to mine. The stories of others were a lifeline to me as I exited and began my life apart from my former church. Their stories still help me as I find keys to understand where I was and what I was dealing with. So in that vein, here is something I realized about myself this week - this one much to my shame and chagrin.

(I talked the other day of feeling like every color that I once experienced seems to be all shades of gray now. This is related to that.)

I noticed when my daughter asked me to go to a movie a week ago that I had no desire to go. In fact, as I looked at myself, I saw that actually I had no desire to do anything. Nothing seemed to "spark" my interest at all. I have found no interest in reading (a favored pastime of former years), no interest in a movie, food, friends, traveling or anything. It is like my emotions and zest for life had flat lined. Even a potential trip to see my sister in Mexico - something that I knew I would love and enjoy - seemed to be insurmountable to actually just sit down and book the tickets.

I pondered this over the next few days. Then something hit me. I was reading another 'prophecy' from a former prophetic type person that I had followed in years past. They had released a prophecy for 2009. In it, they talked about the inevitable "transfer of wealth" that the Christians could expect in the year 2009. I remembered this being prophesied over our body for the past 12 years at least. Marsh and I had received several "words" personally.

Now, if asked, we would have said that the wealth that was supposedly to be dumped in our laps was to be used on missions type projects. It would be used for the "Kingdom of God." But the other day it occurred to me that my heart had been twisted up in this promise of future wealth - and to my dismay, I realized that I was hoping for the wealth primarily for.... ME.

See, if I had wealth enough to build a home for orphans in Belize, I could imagine that I would oversee the project flying first class instead of coach and staying at a nice resort while I was there. If I could afford to build the body a new worship center, I would certainly be wealthy enough to afford that new Mercedes that always caught my eye. If I gave a million away to charity in a year, staying at a 5 star resort in the Bahamas for our family vacation was not out of reach, right?

So to my embarrassment, I had to admit that each year as I looked forward to the 'new thing' that God was going to do, I had my dreams and hopes for a financially prosperous lifestyle hanging on that expectation. It was always like standing on tip toe, constantly waiting for the next huge surprise to come your way. You can put up with a lot of crap now if you think that you will be a millionaire next year. Hope is a wonderful thing. Excitement is fun to feel.

But now that I realize that all those prophecies were wrong, that all those promises of wealth were empty and that the scriptures used to support them are bogus for us today, I am left with the realization that this year will probably look a lot like last year and the year before it. We will work hard, pay our bills, hope for less breakdowns in our stuff and maybe experience some success in our savings accounts.

Folks that looks bleak compared to maybe becoming a millionaire this next year complete with the BMW and Bahama vacation. And without that....with that hope (rightly) taken away....my emotions have flat lined. What do I have to look forward to today, this week, this month or this year? What can compare to the former dreams and hopes? What will give me a new excitement and hope like that one did?

I have repented of my selfish, greedy heart. Father had already forgiven me. He wasn't surprised by the revelation. He saw it all along.

I ask Him today to return sanity to my life. Spending time with my daughter while we enjoy a movie together is supposed to be a good thing. It is supposed to give me something to look forward to. Normal people enjoy this. I need to enjoy it too.

No, it is not as exciting as becoming the next millionaire but this, at least, is based in reality and I am determined to live there now instead of the fantasy land of yesteryear.

It is said that, "hope deferred makes the heart sick." I think even false hopes can do this. I need the Healer of hearts to come and return mine to normal again. I'm ready for my emotions to have the normal highs and lows and to be able to look foward to something again.

Come and See What God Has Done!!!

How many of you have grown up in churches where the title of this post is often repeated over everything good that happens to the church or the people in it? We used to give testimonies of “What God had Done.” that week in our lives. Each year we ended the year on a time of giving thanks for all that God had done that year. We often shared our testimony with a non-Christian and filled it full of “what God had done” for us to the point that it made it look stupid to turn down such a God and his invitation to also participate in all the good he wanted to do for them. (I think we imagined that God did not do the same for them, just we who believed like us and especially those that attended our particular group.)

Something happened this month that has had me pondering this phrase. Husband reached the point in his business where the home office opened a new office for him here in our town. Their philosophy is that each financial representative needs to have their own office with their own administrative assistant so that the customers/investors will be personally taken care of. A small town approach to investing.

His office is beautiful. It looks like he has already achieved success. We have a prime location close to down town. If you didn’t know that the bulk of the funding came from the Company, you would assume that he is doing brilliantly at this new career of just 2 years.

But it has been the hardest thing he has ever endeavored. He sweated bullets to pass his Series 7 exams. He worked long hours going door to door and talking to new clients in the dead of winter. He has pushed himself to be a salesman while still trying to remain full of integrity. He has turned down profit for the good of the person sitting across the table. He has struggled with living with quotas and sales deadlines that never run his life before. And yes, he is right where the company feels he should be at this time. They are happy with him. Happy enough that they trust him to open an office downtown. But he has worked extremely hard. None of it has been easy.

See, we were taught that as we begin something there would be “favor” on us. We had tithed and given and were to reap 100 fold. We had been faithful and so God would be faithful to us. Everything good that happened in our lives was attributed to the goodness of God and his favor on our lives. The new office would have been “spun” something like this at our annual year end party:

We give praise to God for his favor on our lives this year. Husband's new office, the beauty of it, it’s prime location and everything. He is so good to us. We have sowed and are now reaping God’s blessing in our lives. Praise Him.


(makes you want to puke - right?)

But instead, this office and all that it stands for smacks of really hard work and really long hours by a man who is tired and often not very satisfied with his life. It has not felt like favor, it has felt like an emotional rollercoaster. It has not felt like reaping - especially since we don’t believe in that crap anymore.

The wild thing about it is that before I would have never had the guts to really say it. I would have only given the ‘spin’ and not the truth of how I really felt. And I think this speaks to the insidious nature of our conversation before we left. Everything was sugar coated. Everything was wrapped in a “God’s favor” colored wrapping paper that covered the truth of what was going on. Nothing was real. Nothing was hard and anyone who really told the truth was not “giving God the glory.”

So what do I believe about God in our year this year? I believe He is good. I believe when Marsh felt he could not go in the office another day that there was strength of a Father who loved him and did not keep him on a goal oriented treadmill - work does - God does not. I believe that the relationship that we have with Him (and each other) this year is stronger and more real. I believe that He has heard our prayers and empathized with our struggles. I believe the favor in our lives is the same favor that is enjoyed by all. It is not measured with success or wealth or circumstance that come to us but with an open invitation to have a relationship with Him. I have no more favor on my life than you do. I have no less than someone else. My relationship with Him is not determined by how giving I am. My relationship with others is. It is to them he asks me to give anyway.

Yes, “Come and Look at what God has Done.”

Then go and see my husband’s office and slap him on the back for all his hard work and perseverance.

And while you are there ask him what he knows of the Father's heart. To that he can speak.

(yes that is a real picture of his office!)

Covenant Breaking, Covering Doctrines and Hearing the Voices Again

Grace, at Kingdom Grace today, posted a bit about Covering and what people say when you have a string of bad things that happen to you. It was great fun in the comments as we poked fun at the doctrine and I chimed in with my few cents.

But this is a serious matter people. I still am reeling from this doctrine. I think it has been the hardest one to extract myself from.

See the other day I decided to do a piece on the practice we had in my old ‘church’ of making covenants. In leaving our group we were to have “broken covenant’ with all the people there. So I was going to write about what covenants are and aren’t and how this doctrine was used to keep people from questioning and leaving our group. I wanted to remember all that was preached so I went onto our old church website (now under a new name) and found the latest sermon on Covenants.

Sure enough there had been one preached in June of this year. As I listened I grew more and more disheartened. Covenant breakers were the evil that the Church needed to purge. They were the reason the harvest of souls were blocked. Those who broke covenant had marriages that had failed, children doing drugs and rebellion, insanity promised and the onslaught of homosexuality and other sins that attached themselves to you.

I knew what was being preached was garbage but then my weekend unfurled. I battled with a daughter over a decision that was going to hurt her – a decision that would have been harder to make had she surrounded herself with Christian friends. Then on Monday, TWO TRUCKS in my business broke down. One had the axle (or something connected to the wheels) actually fall out of the truck. Then an irate customer who was threatening to sue my company for something she perceived we had done. By the end of the day I was exhausted.

But more than that….I was hearing the voices again. “All this has happened because you are a covenant breaker.” “If you were in the ‘church’ you would be protected.” “God knows what you have been writing and thinking and talking with people about. You have talked ill of the brothers and therefore all these things are being allowed to happen.”

I was so mad at myself. I was ashamed to admit that I still heard these things in my head. I was flabbergasted that this man’s voice could silence the truth that I knew to be true.

So….no big ending here. I am more sane today. Best Friend spoke truth to me, Husband reminded me of times that were even worse – while still in the system, an adopted daughter laughed with me at myself, Grace’s post made me laugh too and another friend made me question what is still in my heart that I don’t really believe about God that shows itself when things like this happen.

I guess I just write to let you know that the journey takes a couple of steps backwards every now and then. I think that I’m not the only one who struggles so don’t despair when you find yourself having to deal with it again.

Husband Replacement

Something strange happened to me the other day. It made me stop in my tracks and say, “Whoa….what was that?”

I was in another ‘church’ two weeks ago. It was a United Methodist Church in the center of our little town. I was attending a funeral of a friend’s husband. The pastors were all dressed in their robes and long collars with rope belts. The windows were beautiful stained glass and the organ was gigantic and melodically soothing. As the service started to close the younger pastor stood over the casket and prayed to usher this man’s soul into heaven.

Now normally I would have expected me to cringe at the formality and religious overtones of the service. But on that day, I liked it. It was safe. The scriptural readings and written prayers were solid and comforting as well as theologically deep and sound. None of it bothered me. In fact I found myself relaxing and enjoying the service.

But something significant happened when the pastor stood over the casket and prayed. I felt myself wanting to lean on his spiritual leadership. I found myself drawn to this man. He seemed strong spiritually. Almost as if you had a twisted ankle and you had to lean on someone for support, I suddenly felt like I could lean on this man.

This was the thing that made me stop myself and ask myself what was going on.

I did not know this man. I didn’t know if he was a good person or a selfish one. I knew NOTHING about him and so I stopped and wondered what was it that was in me that felt like I wanted/needed to lean on someone, unknown to me, for spiritual guidance and support.

In chewing on this in the subsequent days I marveled at this need that was evident in me. I did not even know this existed in me and why did it exist at all?

Here is my theory. I think I have often wanted someone to take the place of the Holy Spirit and/or my husband in this spiritual partnership of the journey through life.

The easy answer that we all know from Sunday School is that the Holy Spirit is supposed to be the one we trust and lean on. He is our comforter, guide, and teacher. We all know that.

But I also feel like God gave me my husband as a partner through this life. We lean on each other emotionally and physically but in this area of 'spiritually' I often found that it was easier to trust someone else. Someone who I thought had it more together spiritually.

Why did I look at my husband and want to replace him with a ‘pastor’? Let me tell you what my own heart revealed to me. I wanted to replace him because I KNOW HIM.

Marshall is a wonderful man but early on (like the first month of our marriage) I started to find out that he did not have it all together spiritually. He had strengths, yes, but he had weaknesses too. Yes, he loved people (and that is what initially drew me to him) but he was about as organized as a junk drawer.

For a while I tried to make him into the spiritual leader that I thought he needed to be. I even remember giving him a full page, hand written out, of how I expected him to lead me. He was to keep me accountable to all the spiritual disciplines, pray with me every day, teach me what he was learning in his daily devotions and so on and so on.

Guess what??? He sucked at my list!! So instead of resting in the Father and resting in the strengths of my husband that he DID have, I found it extremely important to find that place in a church structure and specifically in a leader. Now here was a pastor who encouraged me to do all this outward stuff that I thought would change me. Here were leaders who were strong where my husband was weak. I put weight, my spiritual weight, on these men and took it away from my husband. I took away the respect that I should have given him and gave it to another man.

I did not want to rest in him because I KNEW HIM!! These other men were unknown to me. I did not know their weaknesses. I did not live with them so it was easier to trust them. How whacked out was that thinking? In some ways, I almost felt like I had been cheating on Marshall in wanting to put my trust/weight in a pastor that I did not even know!!! Oh my God!

I just wonder if there are women out there who are like me. Do you find that your husband does not ‘measure up’ to your spiritual expectations? Do you miss having a ‘pastor’ carry this weight or journey with you? Would you rather journey spiritually with another man than with your husband?

I’ve had to do some serious repenting to my husband. While none of this was thought out in detail in my mind and I had no idea that this is what I had done, I had still done this my entire life. It even kept us at the ‘church’ we belonged to probably 10 years beyond what we would have stayed. I would not listen to his questioning of our leaders because I did not trust him. (A writer, Darin Hufford, said to me once that he hears so many stories where the husband was the one that had wanted to leave their churches but the wives had balked at it. The wives, thinking that their husbands were wrong, kept the family in bad situations much longer than necessary.)

Here is what is so crazy. I measured Marshall for so many years by a measuring stick that was skewed. On one stick was all the things that I thought made you a good Christian - things like being faithful to daily Bible reading, memorizing, journaling, church attendance and fulfilling all the expectations of the leader of whatever church we were in. On the other stick – (God’s stick, btw) - were things like faithfulness, kindness, loving the unlovely, willingness to help me and others, love for his kids, the ability to laugh with those who laugh and weep with those who weep. If I were to have used the right stick he was head and shoulders above any one I knew. But in so many ways I took what other men were better at and measured him by them.

So there is my revelation for the week. I’m not too proud of this one. I'm breaking my sticks - all of them.

And today I am committed to walk the rest of my life together with my husband. I commit to (appropriately) “lean” on him in all the areas of my life. I want to make him my partner in ALL aspects of our relationship.

And as a note to all those who read my blog who are in full time ministry:

Please encourage all of those who wish to put you into this position to refrain. Show the women that you are no better than their husbands. Don’t allow women (or men for that fact) put you into this unhealthy position. Make those around you aware of your weaknesses. Stress that you are only journey mates together with them and not this high and mighty spiritual leader. Encourage wives to listen to their husbands and husbands to their wives. Encourage them to make decisions together instead of always running to you. And go home tonight and give your wife a hug. She knows you and you are her ‘pastor’. She has my love and respect.

Marbles in My Mouth

I feel like I have marbles in my mouth.

It used to be easy to speak "Christianese." But words mean a lot to me and I just can’t seem to spit out sentences using the words that I have always used.

Before, I would say simple sentences such as;

“Today at church I really enjoyed the worship.”

But when you don’t believe that church is that time on Sunday morning when believers come together for teaching, singing and tithing and worship is much bigger than a song you might sing, I find myself in trouble…. verbally that is.

Now I find I have to speak in complex, seemingly befuddling sentences such as,

“Today when we….um… got together with….you know…. a bunch of people that love Jesus at…um… the building down the street I really enjoyed the time they…ahhh…. devoted…(deep breath).. to singing songs that…ummmm…. told Jesus how we love him.”

Sometimes it is really hard as I trip over my words and decide how to say something that used to be so simple.

Best Friend just shakes her head.... And probably mumbles under her breath, "Bless her heart." (She is from the South after all.)

"The Kingdom of Wordland' by VF @ Clarity Rediscovered

I found this series of posts from a blogger who goes by VF at Clarity Rediscovered. It is an allegory with 5 chapters (short posts) that was both staggering in some of its similarity to our own situation and hauntingly prophetic as to what we see the path our CLB is taking.

This is another one of those, "You mean we are not the only one?" kind of moments.

The Kingdom of Wordland

Chapter One: In the Beginning

Chapter Two: Trouble Brews For the Wordlanders

Chapter Three: The Big Move

Chapter Four: A Mass Exodus

Chapter Five: The Aftermath

My Statement of Faith

After attending my first Charismatic service on Sunday since we left our CLB, I am left with so many questions.

The biggest one I walked away with was this: If I were ever somehow put in charge of leading a service, (which I’m sure I won’t be but go with me here for a minute) and the subject of having faith that God would heal you, came up....what would I say?

Yesterday, I heard the classic charismatic theme of God wants to you be healed, saved and delivered today.

I realized that I could never make that promise to a group of people.

So I would have to say something to the effect that: 1) God can heal. 2) I would love for you to be healed. 3) I am willing to ask that you be healed. 4) I know God will hear us.

But if that is all that I could say about healing, wouldn't that take someone’s faith away? We had always had taught to us that we needed to raise the faith level of the people in the room by convincing them that God WOULD heal. That way they would have faith to BE healed.

But even scripturally, I can’t make those promises. Jesus didn’t always heal everyone. Sometimes he just didn’t (did only what he saw the Father doing kind of thing). Other times he couldn’t heal because of the atmosphere of disbelief. Other times it seemed that he had a different time frame in mind - like in Lazarus and the man born blind.

So my question is this: What is faith and what are we to have faith in?

I can no longer preach a faith that God will always heal. Nor will I preach that it is always because of your lack of faith that you are not healed.

I truly believe that there is a faith in our God who can heal but I wonder if the faith is misplaced.

Maybe we have placed our faith in what God does... or can do...and not who he is.

See, if I have faith in a God of love then my faith rests in his love for me - no matter what my circumstances. My faith is wrapped up in His love, ergo in who he is, not what he can do.

It says that people lived in caves and were sawed in two ‘in faith.’ Their faith did not rescue them from our vantage point so it is safe to assume that what is preached as faith today misses the mark.

Faith has to be big enough to encompass both getting what you have asked for, believed in and been promised, and not getting what you have asked for, believed in and were promised.

Therefore, it is my conclusion tonight that faith has to be much bigger than what I heard on Sunday morning. In fact my faith has to be as big as the heart of the Father.

Faith has to be the determination to trust in this Father heart no matter what. Faith has to say to the Enemy of our souls that no matter what, I will have faith in, trust in and rest in the Love of God.

Therein lies my faith tonight.

Broken on the Political Front

As I listen in on the political front I have decided that something is deeply broken in me.

I don’t trust leadership right now - church or state. The hurts of the church have gone deeper than religion. They effect how I view the world and thusly how I view men and women in the world that want to be my political leaders. Ms. Palin might be a very wonderful woman....but I have seen very wonderful women do very horrible things to protect the things that are valuable to them. Mr. Obama might be a captivating speaker but I have sat under captivating speakers before who spoke what turned out to be outright lies.

I wasn’t always this way. I trusted the government to take care of my family when I was a child - my dad was in the military. This breeds a deep trust in your government. I trusted my church and their teachings growing up through my teens and 20’s. That was destroyed but I just thought I had bought into the wrong brand. So I trusted again. I trusted our ‘church’s’ leaders. I trusted their teachings, their vision and their professed love for me, my family and our ‘church’ body. That did not work out so well…

I have seen firsthand what the desire for power and prestige does to a person. Heck, it just occurred to me that I have been that person. It is not so very far away to the core of who I am.

You take a man (or woman) add power, throw in a bunch of money and prestige, shake, and I am left with the bitter drink of distrust.

So I think that is why I am having such a hard time. I believe no one. I trust no organization. I can’t even start to believe that what they say now really reflects what they will do later or what they even believe in their hearts. Sound bites do not reveal the heart and motives. I want to believe them as I hear them speak…but something in me warns me again that I cannot always trust what I see. Great orators have deceived men for ages.

Add that to the fact that I don’t believe that I can start to understand the world in such a way that I could make informed decisions on the basis of my present knowledge - as limited as that is. Our world is too complex. When you think you understand and grasp an issue - there is a corresponding result in another quadrant that you didn’t even see. I don’t have the time to become a political science major. And even if I were an expert in a field such as that or economics or government - who’s to say I would have been taught a true and balanced perspective?

I understand why someone would be a one issue voter - whether it be abortion or the environment or health. Please don’t make fun of these people. Maybe that is all they have confidence in their own intellect for.

I know who I’m voting for. It’s not that. It is just that I don’t trust them, or anyone, anymore. And I really don’t like that about myself.

This is going to be a long few weeks for me.

Old Winskin - Don't Fear the Label

The other day I listened to a sermon preached by Dutch Sheets regarding Lakeland. You can find it here. (scroll down to under his latest letter to a sermon link given on May 18, 2008) While there is much that I would disagree with Mr. Sheets in issues of theology and practice, I was impressed again by the gentle wisdom that this man displays while still belonging to a group of men and women that I vehemently disagree with. He remains the one voice that I have heard that I can even begin to trust. In his sermon he speaks of the role of wisdom and revelation and how to walk the line keeping both in our lives. He then speaks of Lakeland and what he was seeing as problems. (This was given before the whole thing blew up.) It was a call to get some accountability into the mess that was beginning. I was impressed that he would speak about it while it was going on as that is usually the kiss of death to disagree with something before everyone else does.

I had to sift through the first part of the message but when he begins to address his concerns of Lakeland I fully was with him. The thing that stood out to me though was his comments about being apprehensive of he, himself, becoming an “old wineskin.”

For the uninitiated, the idea of an old wineskin comes from the passages in Scripture (Matthew 9, Mark 2 and Luke 5) where the Pharisees and the disciples of John come to Jesus asking why he does not keep the law…why he is eating his fill with sinners and they are observing the law by fasting. Jesus says that his disciples are enjoying having the bridegroom with them and therefore it is party time. Then he speaks the words that every Charismatic follower fears, “And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined.”

See, in the charismatic world, being labeled a old wineskin is paramount to being slapped in the face with a glove and called out for a duel. No one ever wanted to be an old wineskin. It meant that you were clinging to the old ways of God and unable to accept what God was doing now. You were now persecuting the new move of God. You were entrenched in religion and not in the flow of the Spirit. You were stuck in the “logos” word and not in the “Rhema.” At its worst, you were now in rebellion to the authority of whatever “new thing” was being issued from the top.

When Husband put his foot down on the simple idea that he believed that the titles of apostle being demanded were not part of the heart of Jesus and his teachings we suddenly found ourselves with the label of “old wineskins.”

It is again, another one of the straw man arguments that keeps men and women of God, men and women of discernment, quiet and in their respective seats.

It saddened me to see Dutch Sheets so hesitant to bring up blatantly deceptive practices within his own camp and be so afraid of stepping into the label of being an old wineskin.

This is not the heart of what Jesus was saying. At the heart of these verses you can say with certainty that the old wineskin was the Law. He was the new wine - not the next idea of some crazed, authority seeking man or woman who refuses to be questioned. Yes, you can extract at teaching from the passage that the Spirit will do unexpected things and we need to be open to His leading, but the slapping of the faces with the glove of “old wineskin” needs to be addressed.

Men and women of this movement need to get over being afraid to speak up. Wrong is wrong. And if your heart picks up greed, or deceit or pride or false teaching, you can be sure it is. Your heart will tell you the truth. Don’t let those who would label you - quiet you.

I have a feeling that there are those reading my blog who are so afraid of this being true of themselves. Let me ask you a question. Do you long to follow the Spirit to the best of your ability? Do you listen closely to the voice of your Father as best as you can and then try to follow his promptings? Do you gladly receive with wisdom things that might be new to your spirit?

Then you are not an old wineskin. Period. Get over it. Don’t be silenced by this accusation any longer - nor fear it another minute.

UPDATE: Husband insisted I watch the greatest glove slap challenge to a duel ever seen in movie history. You can see it here at about 38 seconds into the clip. Don't blame me for the way his mind works!

How Then Shall We Raise Our Kids? Part 1

Brother Maynard posted the other day about Stacy Campbell’s prophecy at the Commissioning of Todd Bentley and her subsequent non apology. In the midst of his article he gave this side note on the prophetic propensity to talk about the "next generation."

….but I have to say that I’m sick and tired of prophetic words about the “chosen” generation or the “next” generation or things of this ilk. I’ve observed people prophesy it over their own generation, and as they age, marry, have a family, and raise children, they begin to prophesy the same thing over the “next” generation — i.e., their own kids. I don’t know, either we’re all special or none of us are… but either way, it doesn’t seem especially “prophetic” to call it out as though it were something new and not something that’s been said to every generation that has practiced prophetic ministry, bar none. It’s just some kind of misguided prophetic nepotism. How come there aren’t any prophetic words that say to teenagers, “You guys aren’t really the chosen generation, but your job is to work hard and raise good families so that they can grow up sound in the faith and pass it along to that generation, which is especially chosen for revival.”

He elicits a comment from a new blogger gxs who says this:

I no longer count myself in the Nazirite/Elijah/John the Baptist/Revolutionary/Overcoming/Revival/End-time Kick Uber-Ass/Joel’s Army generation ….not as described by the ‘prophetic movement’ anyway.

This started me thinking. I totally resonate with the comments from these two writers. I no longer buy into the thinking that this next generation is more special than the generation that went before it. I doubt this as much as I doubt that because this is 2008 and 8 is the number of God, that 2008 will be the year that God pours out his blessings in an unprecedented way. (sorry I gave up on the links) I have lived through the hype year after year (God was always going to do great things each year) and the men and women who keep this up should be shot on the stage where they stand unabashedly saying the same things year after year with no one questioning why it did not happen last year like they said it would. In the same way, if you read generations gone by they all jumped on the bandwagon of the “new, greater generation that would follow.

BUT here is my question. How then am I going to raise my children? I have been spoon fed this kind of theology and told to get my children ready for their “destinies” . Now what do I prepare them for? How do I encourage the gifts in them and give them a hope for their future without all the hype. How do I tell them that their lives are important but they may not be able to change the entire world in their lifetimes? How do I give them a sight of the true Kingdom of God while keeping their feet firmly planted in the world?

Would love to know what those who have come out of this kind of teaching are doing with your children. I’ll post later what I think. I’m listening to you first.

Favor

Mary over at One Thing Is Needed has asked a brilliant question about the idea of asking for favor or expecting favor on our lives because we are believers. Please read it here. I didn’t want to take up all the comment space there so I’ll reply here.

As I said in the comments, Marsh and I discussed this most of last evening after I did a brief study of the words favor and grace in the Old and New Testament. In the New Testament I love that the word favor is actually the word grace. They are interchangeable. As I read all the verses that use the word grace in the New Testament I found that grace means so much more than just God bestowing good things on us. It is totally wrapped up into the Person of Grace. Often it is referred to as the “grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.” I love that it is not just a concept anymore but a Person.

So much like me, I was ready to throw out asking for favor or grace at all because we now live IN grace. But then Husband asked, “What about all the verses that make it clear that God wants his children to ask for things. Paul even talks about asking for grace/favor to do things. You can’t throw those out.” (He is always doing this to me…..grrrrr….balance and all that) We then decided that there is a big difference from asking for favor or grace and asking for preference. Preference says “bless me and not them.” Preference says, "Give me the job and don’t give it to the other person.“ Preference says, “Give me the wealth of the Gentiles.“ (See preference was totally understood to the Jewish people in the Old Testament. This is how they saw it. If you obey - you will get favor - preference - from God.) But favor - this New Testament idea - can include just asking for the blessing that Father has already said He wants to give us.

It is kind of like the two sons in the Prodigal Son story. Both sons could have lived in the grace or favor of their father. Neither son did. The wayward son was not living in the grace that was there all the time but we find out that the elder son also was not living in it because he would not ask for anything.

It will probably change my prayer life quite a bit. I really do trust the Father to give me good things. I want to stay as far away from the “name-it-claim-it” “I get preferential treatment because I’m a believer” camp. But I also can’t be shy about asking for things either. I want to ask in a much more humble way though. Not “Give me preference over all the heathen,” or “Me first!!" kind of prayer, but more like, “ Father I would really like this and know that your heart is to give me good gifts, so I’m asking, but I trust You with the giving part.”

Thanks Mary, this was very helpful.

UPDATE: Sara, in the comments gave a link to a blog that mentions a famous preacher in the news lately. It was his sense of ENTITLEMENT that is so off. This is a perfect word to describe the very thing that I am trying to describe above. Favor that becomes entitlement is twisted. Thanks Sara!

Straw Man Arguments

In my wandering around the ‘net this week and reading about what people are saying about the meetings going on in Lakeland, Florida I have been again pulled through so many emotions as thoughts go whirling around in my head. At times I am ready to just give grace to all involved with a totally open hand and heart. At other times I’m ready to take out another add in the local newspaper and decry, “What the Hell are you all thinking!!”

Again my schizophrenia rears its ugly head.

But then I found an article the other day that made me realize at least to some extent why I am so affected by this whole subject.

The article can be found at here. It is entitled: The Holy Ghost Straw Men: Full Gospel Excuses For Error

While I don’t agree with the author in some of his arguments I do agree with his main point. There are seven main statements that we, in the Charismatic circles, have been taught over and over again to hide bad theology, bad practices and sometimes bad behavior and character. These “Straw Men Arguments” as the author calls them are the arguments that keep us quiet and in our seats and not questioning or thinking for ourselves.

Here are the arguments with just a bit of my own explanation of how they were used in the Charasmatic circles I was familiar with:

1) “We need a fresh word for today” Meaning the Bible was an old word and the fresh and new revealed word of today was really important. When it was brought up that it contradicted the Bible, the re-interpretation of the Bible began with criminal hermeneutics. The “fresh word” was what was important and those speaking it were not to be questioned.

2) “We are not bound by tradition” Religion was dead. Haughtiness reigned as the words were spoken and intoned that WE – those who have a clue – were not bound by yesterday’s traditions. Never mind that our own traditions were just as binding as any that we had left. If you questioned their practices or theology you were told that you were bound up in the old ways and not open to what God was doing now.

3) “God offends the mind to reveal the heart” While I believe that this is actually a true statement, those that wanted to used this against the sheep did so with a relish. ANY practice or any bad behavior on the part of the leaders could be excused because it was good to have our minds offended by the Holy Spirit. If the pastor yelled at you and lost his temper he could state that it was good for you and built character. If absolutely CRAZY things started happening and someone was taken aback or offended, this straw man was pulled out and oftentimes the reasoned explanations were glossed over with just a few words like these. It ultimately made you feel like God routinely needed to offend you because your heart was so blind and bad.

4) “Touch not the Anointed: Do his prophets no harm” I have already dealt with this in a few of my posts. It is the biggest straw man of the hierarchical type churches. We were told that even if the leaders were wrong, we would be saved from bad things happening to us because we were submitted.

5) “Judge not lest you be judged” While the myriad of verses that teach us to judge in and of our own right were forgotten, this one was given especially if we were questioning leadership. It is funny, they could judge us, proclaim our children to have a sexual spirit, tell us that we were full of pride, tell us our cars were dirty and needed to be washed, or hold us accountable for being rebellious but we did not have that privilege to do the same except over our own lives or those that they had put under us. Judgment always extended down in the pyramid – never up.

6) “Doctrine is just someone’s opinion” This one was used often especially if you had any formal training in the study of the Bible. Husband had his Masters of Divinity from Southwestern Seminary and our pastor did not have any formal training whatsoever. Maybe men like this are afraid but we were told early on that doctrine separates men where love and covenant keep them together. At first we saw the wisdom of that statement – who does not know of good friends splitting over minor doctrinal differences, but what we did not know is that doctrine was also not understood or honored in any way. This led to various teachings coming and going with no thought to what it would mean in the long run. No one had any basis for their faith except what they believed the Bible was saying to them. It gave the churches no foundation. They oftentimes had a formal doctrinal statement but had no idea what it meant or how to keep any order to the “new word” that was being spoken. We were also told how seminaries were now of no use and how the conferences of today were going to replace the training of the “army of God.” Many, many of these men had no formal training.

7) “God is doing a new thing” Again, this one was used over and over again. I got tired of God’s supposed “new thing” in our own group. It seemed most times that the new thing was just the abandonment of something else that wasn’t working. The new thing could be the new leadership raised up (because of the old leadership was leaving – again), a new pet project of the leaders or the fact that we now had to all dress up to come to church so that we gave respect to the Apostle who was visiting. And don’t forget the “new things” that were just around the corner. If I had a dollar for the New Years Eve prophecies of the year of the “New Thing” I would at least be $19.00 richer. It never came – but we waited in expectation for finances to be blessed, abundance to spring forth and our church to grow to thousands.

It hit me last night that as Husband and I read through the entire article that these seven phrases, taught over and over again to us, (some) were not all bad in and of themselves. Some of them even had truth attached to them. But added together and spoken hundreds and hundreds of times they became the cords that bound us to silence. These ‘straw men arguments” on their own in the hands of a man or woman of integrity and humility would not hurt many. But put these arguments into the hands of someone who is out to build their own kingdom and you might as well just leave now before you are wearing imprints of tire treads on your backside.

Listen carefully the next time you hear any one of these preached or spoken. Ask what is really going on. Ask, investigate, judge and pray. Don’t be bound by these straw men any longer.

Ht to David Hayward at Nakedpastor for the comics. I bought him a beer!

Taking Our Cities For God

Abmo over at Windblown Hope has added another layer onto Heather’s original post that has already stirred so much good discussion. He asks this question about the phrase that we all proclaimed in our charismatic services about how we were going to, “Take our city for Christ.” He poses this question after discussing how utterly hard it is to try to even describe what this might mean.


He says, “Then a thought hit me over the head. How would a town/city look like when it’s been won for Jesus? What kind of a town would it be? This could be fun. What do you think a town/city would look like, if it’s been won for Jesus?”


I have two paragraphs. My first paragraph is what I think they (the churches that I participated with) meant when they said this. The second paragraph is my answer to what I think it would mean if I ever saw a city “Taken for Jesus.”


My CLB (church left behind) was BIG on government. So one of the first evidences to them that our city had been “taken for Christ’ would be if all the churches in the area came under the governmental rule of one Apostle. (Usually this apostle would be speaking of himself as "The Apostle") This would be unity of the brethren that they believed the Bible talks about. But not only the churches. The businesses would also have apostolic men in them that were ranked under the key apostles. The police department, the hospital, the mayor’s office, all would have godly men submitted to the men that God had placed above them. (The Apostle) They believed that then and only then could the Kingdom of God be brought into a city. We were taught that when God’s government was in place then the power of God would be released in a city to experience the glory of his presence. People’s lives would be changed. They would become Christians and be involved in our apostolic churches. Even other denominations would see the unity and want to come under this covering. One City, One Church, One head – the Apostle. Godly government would release prosperity. It would release the favor of God on the city. The city would be under apostolic covering and so it would be protected from the ravages of the enemy. It would become a kind of a utopia. A city of refuge. Crime would decrease. Corruption would not be found and Jesus’ prayer that God’s will would be “done on earth as it is in heaven” would have come into being.


This is what is being preached in more and more churches across our nation and now into the world. C. Peter Wagners’ New Apostolic Reformation and the International Coalition of Apostles believe this. Most of the men preaching this believe that they or a very small handful of men like them are the ones who should rule and reign with God’s blessing over the cities and churches in an area. If you hear the words used like Apostle, covering, governmental, apostolic authority, or any thing like this, stop and ask some questions. In my opinion it is a structure being erected by men (some well meaning – some in it for their own power needs) to build their own kingdom. It has the potential for spiritual abuse like no other system since the crusades. Already, if you do not agree with the Apostle’s agenda you are demonized and called rebellious – not only to the man preaching – but to God himself. They are speaking in behalf of God and his will for you and this earth, and that my friend is just downright dangerous.


I therefore would not use the phrase “Take our city for Jesus.” I don’t believe it will happen until the physical rule of Jesus is on the earth and I have NO idea how that will ultimately happen or how it will look.


That said, let me say this; I do believe that there has been and will be awakenings in cities and regions before He comes. I believe that through the divine hand of God there will be times where the Spirit awakens those in a single region or city to an awareness of the Grace of God in Jesus. Many will turn to Him. If it is a real move of the Spirit it will result in Grace being poured out to the poor and the broken. The key financial aspect of it will be that of sharing with each other as in the move of the Holy Spirit in Acts. The only covering done will be that of one brother to another in forgiveness and reconciliation. The only government will be that of Grace and Mercy to our fellow man/woman. The only refuge will be in each others homes and hearts to those who need a place that is safe. The only unity will be that of love. It won’t be controlled, ruled over or manipulated. The leaders will not find them selves having more power – just more of their own lives to lay down. The city will not be “taken for Christ.” Christ instead, will be received into that city – received into the hearts and minds of individual people who will be changed – thus changing their surroundings.


I would love to hear and read about what you think about this phrase. Please consider yourself tagged. You can answer anything you want about what it means to you when you hear the words, “take our city for God.” But I kind of already know what those whom I read will answer. I already know their hearts and have read their writings enough to know I will be encouraged by their answers. The people I would love to hear from are those who lurk around these sites who read and never write anything. So if that is you today, consider yourself tagged. If you don’t have a blog to link to in the comments section just leave it as a long comment and be sure to tell people over at Windblown Hope that you are chiming in on this one.

Blessings

Religion and Fear

Larry Norman died last week. I read about it on many blogs. I am old enough to remember his music and so I kept wondering why I had not liked his music. You need to realize that I love music. All kinds. I listen to everything and actually enjoy it all. I can have my windows rattling with Bach or Mozart just as they could be rattling with the latest Rap from Eminem. And when the whole Christian Rock was born I had all the new records. Sandy, Amy, Keith, Love Song……Lend an ear….to a love song….oooh a love song….(Sing along now) So why did I not listen to Larry Norman?

It wasn’t until I read Brant’s post last week that I remembered why. It was those movies – A Thief in the Night, Left Behind. Larry’s most famous song was the soundtrack to those movies. No wonder why I was not fond of him. He was my introduction to FEAR IN RELIGION.

My introduction to fear in the church came at a very young age. Now that I think back on it I am outraged. What person lets a little kid watch such a movie? Now, I had “asked Jesus in my heart,” when I was 5. It was real to me and I really think that something supernatural was placed in me that night. With the rules of the game, I was safe – I was saved and going to heaven – I would be raptured when it happened. But I didn’t feel safe. I was always panicked anytime I could not find my parents. I forever worried about driving along in a car and the driver being ‘taken’ and the rest of us left to die in a fiery crash. If my parents were even 5 minutes late getting home I had a stomach ache. (Oh, for cell phones)

It is funny. We believed in eternal salvation but you were never sure that if you were to have been found at a dance or a movie theatre or even just thinking a bad thought - and the rapture occurred – would you really be taken? Because of this doctrine I lived my life in fear. Fear of not being good enough and fear of being left to being marked by the Beast and forever out of the grace of God.

I was 25 before I met a kind pastor that blew away this theology in 2 hours one night. I had never even met a Christian before that did not believe in the rapture. We had heard about such heretics in my Bible School but no one had ever told me that true Christian men and women did not all believe the same things. My world was rocked and I cried for the next week. How in the world had I been taught these things without saying that there at least were other ways to view what the Bible was saying? Why was I not taught that this was a new belief of only a few hundred years old? Why was I not taught that it was actually the Scofield Bible’s notes that made this doctrine preached in the United States so widely? For something so fundamentally believed and accepted in my little life, why was I not given all the facts and then allowed to make my own decision?

But that is not the reason for this post. The reason I wanted to talk about this today is because I got very used to fear in my faith. Those in authority used fear to control their congregations. In a podcast from Wayne and Brad last week (Freedom from Fear) they cited an article that said that fear can be the most controlling force in a person’s life.

That got me thinking. I could look back into my childhood and see where fear was used by the church (and I hated it) but I wanted to look forward….after I changed my theology….to see if fear had still been used to control me. How did the whole Charismatic theology manifest fear in my life, and was I still under fear today?

Here are some ways I thought of:

There was a huge fear of the demonic. Fear that you would do or say something that would open you up to demonic forces in your life. Fear against what the ruling forces of the region could do to you.

Fear of somehow losing your destiny – through either making bad choices in a church or mate or life in general or being in the wrong church or camp.

Fear of being out from under authority. Fear that you were not obeying your husband or father and then later on, fear that you were not submitting to the Apostle or Prophet of the church.

Fear of not tithing and/or not giving enough to ‘cover’ your own finances to where God would bless you.

Fear of not raising your kids just right so that they would make the very same choices that you would make for them.

Fear that the world would corrupt us or our kids by contact with it.

Fear that allowing a non Christian to teach our kids would result in God not being in their lives.

Fear that anything we or our kids did, might be a stumbling block to someone.

Fear that if we did not come across as spiritual – that we would be demoted or sidelined or shunned.

Fear of admitting your were broken and not healed yet.

Fear of missing ‘your opportunity’ for healing or deliverance or blessing from whatever service was being held that night or that weekend. (actually this was used to try to get people to EVERY meeting that the church had – even a business or planning meeting…..you could never tell when God would show up and you weren’t there) Fear of not being where God’s Spirit was being poured out.

Fear that someone might actually find out that you were just pretending in worship. Fear of not looking “worshipful.” Fear that there is something really wrong with you.

Fear of not being able to say that you disagreed. Fear that you were somehow evil because you had an opinion that differed.

I’m sure there is more….I am just sickened. I am over 50 and I have lived every moment of my life in Jesus, in fear. From the time I made my first steps toward this life of Faith I have carried a companion with me named Fear.

So today I resolve to dismiss my companion of Fear and replace him. I want a new traveling companion. I hate what Fear has done to my life.

Therefore, I will replace him with……Grace or Wisdom or maybe Laughter. What do you think? Who do you walk with?