Sunday, August 17, 2008

A Call For Honesty

Those who read here are probably familiar with the fact that we left a church that was closely aligned with C. Peter Wagner and the Apostolic group that he leads.

As the events have unfolded this week concerning Todd Bentley and the Apostolic group that commissioned him, I have followed along with a mixture of grief and outrage. Surprisingly, my outrage is not directed at Todd. I believe he is just one who was caught up in exactly what this stream teaches. He is the fruit of the movement. His pleas for money, his pride, his hype, his ability to stretch the truth and his lack of concern to back his claims up with proof is nothing more than his ability to be a good disciple of those who were around him.

The outrage came at the treatment that he got at the hands of the supposed "Father" of the Apostles. At the mention of his divorce Mr. Wagner and his wife issued statements to protect themselves and their movement.

And there starts the spin. Instead of humbling themselves and admitting that they were too hasty in commissioning this man they start to distance themselves, throw flack to keep you off balanced and re-writing history of what actually happened.

As you read the responses or hear them in your churches today, would you please review the following videos of the commissioning of Todd Bentley and what was actually said? Check what was said on that night with what is being said now. See it for yourselves and use it to see if what is said now accurately depicts what happened and was said on that night.

For instance, C. Peter Wagner does issue an apostolic blessing. It is there and holds nothing back. He clearly states that Todd is to be the leader of this revival.

Che Ahn says that he is being called as an Ephesians 4 evangelist "knowing that you have walked in a manner worthy of the Lord, pleasing Jesus in every way, bearing fruit in every good work, and growing in the intimacy and knowledge of God. We as your brothers and friends, having a deep love for you and Shonnah" are here to commission you, ect, ect.

John Arnot says, "We bless you today Todd Bentley, you are a friend, a man of God, a man of prayer, a man of the spirit....we stand with you, we encourage you, we honor you."

Bill Johnson in reference to how Todd welcomes the glory says, "I long to learn from you."

Simply listening to what these men said absolutely confirms the impression that they were wholeheartedly giving Todd the keys to the car and trusting him to the whole revival. Nowhere was there any doubt expressed in these men's words that there was a question in their hearts about Todd, his character or his ministry. Surely, if they had questions, some of that would come through. I have heard people prophesy and bless someone while still being cautious of what they are not sure of.

So, while my heart breaks for the whole thing, I encourage you to watch the videos and remind yourself of the truth. Hopefully, these men will own up and apologize to the world of their hasty recommendations of all that was Todd and Lakeland. I am hopeful, but all the while I am so familiar with the re-writing of history that these men and women do. I am so familiar with the "spin" that usually accompanies these kinds of things that I could write the script for it myself.

This is what they have already said or will eventually say.

1) We knew of the problems (otherwise where would be their discernment?)
2) That they were not really putting their full endorsement on Todd
3) That it is a good thing for the body of Christ that they were brought in when they were. That only God knew this was brewing and he wanted to have His men in place to take care of the situation
4) And this is the biggest one: That it was actually their commissioning that allowed the truth of the facts of Todd's life to come out. They will use this to put fear into people that the Apostolic anointing is not to be take lightly and "All will be revealed when alignment is brought into the Kingdom of God." It is their great giftings that are to be revered. They are the heros. They are the leaders.

In my opinion, this will not hurt this new Apostolic movement. It will only strengthen it because the followers of this movement have already been prepped for how to follow the re-writing of history and the spin that they have to believe to belong.

The videos are here. If you are in any position in this whole movement, please hold these men and women to the truth of what was said that night and not what they want you to believe now.







12 comments:

Tyler Dawn said...

Oh my, how tragic. I don't follow this so I had not heard.

This CYA makes me ill. And I am just very sad. No man (young or old) should have this much power, it is just poison and all of these people are showing the signs of the sickness. :( Todd is very young indeed, but as we see in politics today, often people will flock to the charisma of the young, get excited about how they make you feel, and then have to deal with the fallout later. Not that all young people are doomed, but it just makes it that much harder not to fail. And for "grown ups" to pile on pressure and responsibility and then cut loose when things don't work out, is just the greatest evidence you can have of being utterly lacking in grace.

Jeff McQ said...

Barb,
One of the benefits of our technology now is that we *can* have videos like these to hold people accountable for what they have said...and bloggers to remind them. :) I know this hits close to home with you, but I feel you have expressed yourself, your feelings and opinions with a sense of fairness, and not with venom. You have pointed to the record, and that's *exactly* what needs to be done right now. Well done.

Anonymous said...

I need some help understanding what was going on with the lady in the second video. That shaking she was doing scared me. I have never seen anything like that. Is that normal in this movement? I agree with you that these men were in total support of TB and they should not back off now and act like they never were. You were very smart to post these videos as proof.

Katherine Gunn said...

Ah, Barb. This is so typical, in my experience. My CLB was not affiliated with this movement, but I used to subscribe to the Elijah List, which many of these men wrote for, and read a lot of what Wagner and Pierce and Bentley wrote. When I first heard of Lakeland, I was a little cautious. When I found out that Todd Bentley was leading it, I was even more cautious. Now, as I read on another blog (can't remember which one), I think God may have been there in the beginning - done something for someone. The rest was men trying to duplicate what happened and sustain it through shear force of human will. It's sick.

My CBL was aligned with Rhema and the Word of Faith movement. Many followed, peripherally, these men. Sigh. A lot of the same crap - looking to men as the dispensers of knowledge instead of the Holy Spirit. By the way, what is this 'Apostolic alignment' crap? I don't ever remember reading anything like that in the Bible.

Hang in there. Anger and outrage are normal and even healthy. This kind of thing should outrage us. The fact that so few are outraged is an indication of the deepness of the disease, perhaps.

Katherine Gunn said...

Okay, I watched a little of the video (I really cannot stomach much of it) and wanted to add this - just an opinion from where I am at right now. This seems more like it is about joining an elite club of 'special' men - almost like a secret society that people kind of know about but is by invitation only and you'd better be damned grateful and impressed if you're asked to join. Hmm... I feel a possible post coming on.

Barb said...

Tyler Dawn, yes, when I read Peter Wagner say that Todd was not aligned with him, I went balistic. It was clear that he was leading the whole thing. For this supposed "Father" to now distance himself is reprehensible.

Jeff, thanks. I wish I had the platform to actually speak to these men. Here's praying that someone will.

Anony, A lot of people in our movement would "shake" when they felt the Holy Spirit on them. While I agree that these "manifestations" can actually be from God, I believe they can be controlled. Some of the people in my circles felt that it gave "proof" that it was God speaking. As the Holy Spirit can cause you to cry, I believe he can cause you to shake. I do believe though that some people fake crying as well as shaking. We are just more comfortable with the crying one.

Katherine, the Apostolic thing started as an offshoot of the Shepherding movement. Some of the same men are involved. It has to do with getting "covering" for you and your ministry. It is basically a papal system - just with charasmatic overtones. And yes it is a very elite club. It is an "honor" to belong. Of course there is a fee. ;(

Rich said...

Barb,

The carnage continues and will continue as long as we choose to drink the ‘holy Kool-Aid’ offered by the angel of light himself. The kicker is that the enemy of our soul is powerless until we give a mind to him.
I share this as one who has been resurrected from the dead, one of John Arnot’s former assistant pastors.

It is truly amazing how we allow ourselves to be deceived through the deceitfulness of our own hearts.
Father loves us too much to violate us, to force us to choose life verses death, and yet it takes a death to witness His power to turn that which was intended for evil, into the Good only He can bring out of it.

Here is something I want to say as well. If we persist in going our own way the Father will allow us to do so. He will allow us to live with the consequences of those actions. The demonstration of the Father’s love in these situations is not in getting us out of them but in what He does with them. There is no one who can get so much good out of a lousy situation as God can. The Father allows us to experience the consequences of our follies but He is also right there with us in them.

Richard

Sarah said...

All empires have the need for political maneuvering such as this. I had the same thought as Jeff. At least with current technologies, these guys are held more accountable for their spin (just like Hilary was when she talked about being under 'sniper fire' during her visit to the Balkans. Youtube debunked that with the video footage of her trip). I love this aspect of technology keeping people honest!

And I think that all that can be shaken will be shaken. And all that is hidden will come to light. I believe that God really is at work addressing certain issues in the His church (in America), and it may take time, and some may never be repentant... but one generation will pass and another will come of age. I'm just thankful for the Joshuas and the Calebs who are moving forward, and who can be true spiritual fathers and mothers!

Lorikate said...

This stuff is what irritates me the most. He lies and the cover-ups. Why can't anyone just come out and admit they were wrong?? I'm also getting tired of all the Todd bentley supporters thinking that we are all sitting around smirking at Todd's seperation. I'm not gloating over this situation at all. But like it or not....it DOES reflect on his "ministry". Even if you support him, you have to at least admit that! In my eyes though, that fact that they are trying so hard to cover it up, and distance themselves, means that they knew something was wrong to begin with.

Karen said...

Does tend to discount all the so-called prophetic words toward Todd on that day, huh? Such discerning prophets {{eye roll}}!

deconstructedchristian said...

As I said on another blog, hopefully this whole thing will make people re-evaluate before they jump in boots and all.

I believe Todd is to blame for his actions - everybody has to take responsibility for themselves - but it's sad that he's partially a product of the whole movement. I wish it hadn't ended like this - but I guess if it's a wake up call to some at least it could do some good that way.

Ruthie said...

I don't live in Todd Bentley's house. I do not know his heart. I don't know his wife. I don't know her heart. I don't live in Peter Wagner's house. I do not know his heart..........The Holy Spirit lives in me and He weeps......

BF